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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please be gentle with me!

23 replies

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 17/01/2023 08:39

It's my first time posting in here because frankly I find it a bit intimidating. My husband doesn't believe that women's rights are being trampled over on behalf of trans rights. Where can I find multiple evidence to show him?

I'm sorry, I just don't have the time to research myself due to multiple health/work issues

OP posts:
LaughingPriest · 17/01/2023 08:55

Welcome. Do you have time to read any existing threads on here? If so we can give you a few to browse.
(Rather than rehashing everything)

LaughingPriest · 17/01/2023 08:58

I remember your thread from a couple of weeks ago about your husband assaulting you. Frankly, whether he engages in feminist issues doesn't seem to be that important here. I wish you luck with whatever is going on with him.

Hoppinggreen · 17/01/2023 08:59

Why bother?

Boiledbeetle · 17/01/2023 09:04

Welcome @MyGhastIsFlabbered I'm not awake and not great at links but Someone will be along soon who's internet skills are better. But off the top of my head the sex matters website may be good to have a look at.

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 17/01/2023 10:26

@LaughingPriest re the assault. We talked about it and he has stopped drinking. It hasn't happened since.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 17/01/2023 10:29

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 17/01/2023 10:26

@LaughingPriest re the assault. We talked about it and he has stopped drinking. It hasn't happened since.

Yet.
I hope it never does but don’t Be surprised if it does, he’s crossed a line.
I am not sure trying to educate him about women’s rights and Trans rights should be your priority at this time

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 17/01/2023 10:42

I appreciate what you are saying but I just want a few resources to direct him to, to explain why I'm so angry about this issue. He thinks I'm transphobic, which I'm not, but he doesn't understand why trans rights concern me. Men's rights are never eroded by trans women so he can't see it.

OP posts:
WandaWomblesaurus · 17/01/2023 10:47

He sounds like he's a problem not you OP. But do stay here and get the support from other women.

I know that for many of us, waking up to why we need feminism is usually coincidental to being treated badly by abusive men.

Just keep coming back and you'll read and pick up things.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 17/01/2023 10:57

This is the place to start @MyGhastIsFlabbered

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

I agree with PP about this man, I haven’t seen the other thread but if he assaulted you drunk or sober it sounds like it is serious and needs careful consideration. Take care of yourself.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 17/01/2023 11:00

You might also find this useful www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

bellinisurge · 17/01/2023 11:01

Any man who assaults a woman, drunk or sober, is a danger to women. Sorry, op. I would advise against getting into a discussion with your husband about this. It is up to you whether you leave him but you should be looking at a Plan B.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 17/01/2023 11:01

And this www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3896235-These-Are-Not-Our-Crimes

Circumferences · 17/01/2023 11:04

Did he miss the Olympics? How did a past middle aged mediocre bloke get to compete with fit 20 something female weight lifters who will be past their peak by the time they're 30.
What about Lia Thomas breaking a world record for women virtually every time they swam.
What about Rachel McKinnon who has broken women's world records in cycling despite being an overweight cyclist and a mediocre one who barely ever trains. There are many more examples than these too.

I know sport is sorting itself out what with new fairer guidelines etc, but these people need to hand back any awards they won for it to be ok again.

I think most blokes get the sports issue. If he can't get that, he's possibly just trying to wind you up? From other posts above it doesn't sound like he's very nice.
Calling you "transphobic" etc is bullying behaviour, are you sure he actually believes that?

Lots of blokes jump on the TRA wagon not because they give a crap about trans people, but they do enjoy sending women rape and death threats line and abusing them for saying perfectly reasonable things.

AlisonDonut · 17/01/2023 11:19

A man that assaults women isn't going to be that concerned about any woman's rights. Calling you transphobic is just another assault.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/01/2023 11:25

I think most blokes get the sports issue. If he can't get that, he's possibly just trying to wind you up? From other posts above it doesn't sound like he's very nice.
Calling you "transphobic" etc is bullying behaviour, are you sure he actually believes that?

Lots of blokes jump on the TRA wagon not because they give a crap about trans people, but they do enjoy sending women rape and death threats line and abusing them for saying perfectly reasonable things.

This.

Kucinghitam · 17/01/2023 11:28

AlisonDonut · 17/01/2023 11:19

A man that assaults women isn't going to be that concerned about any woman's rights. Calling you transphobic is just another assault.

This.

My sympathies, OP.

BunchHarman · 17/01/2023 11:47

Remembering your other threads, I think you should leave the appalling abusive arsehole.

Sidaway · 17/01/2023 11:58

JK Rowling's essay on this is an excellent start: www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

(She also talks about her experience of domestic abuse...)

Toomanysleepycats · 17/01/2023 11:58

Here my take on it, and it’s ref transwomen not trans men.

There is small number of men with true gender dysphoria. From what I’ve seen these men tend to be younger. They will take hormones and will some surgery. Any trans woman who has bottom surgery will have my undying respect.

To be legally a woman you need to get a Gender Recognition Certificate. There were certain conditions which need to be fulfilled. Ie over 18, you have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. You have been living as a woman for 2 years, and intend to to stay this gender for the rest of your life. You can apply even if you haven’t had any surgery or treatment, and don’t intend to.

There is another group of men who have various forms of autogynephilia. These men are aroused sexually by the thought of being a woman or dressed as a women. In the old days it was called a kink, or fetish. They were called cross dressers. I’m not sure if you could include peeping toms in this group.

There is also a third group of men who are sexual predators of young boys and girls, teenagers and women. I remember hearing a (nice) policemen saying the general pubic have no idea of the lengths these predators will go to, to have access to these mostly women and girls. They will happily dress as a woman if it means that they can go into womens spaces.

By giving the first group, the genuine gender dysphoria men, access to womens changing rooms, toilets, sports, prisons, and other single sex spaces, you are also giving access to the other two groups of men who have more sinister intentions.

The argument for TWAW (transwomen are women) is that this group has been severely discriminated against. In the same way we have legislated for equality for women, other races and people with disabilities, we should also legislate for Tw to be classed as women.

I don’t know how many of each of those three groups of men are out there. My personal opinion is that the first group of TW, do not outnumber the other two groups of men (cross dressers and predators). But I do know that the population of women is slightly over 50%.

So the very crux of the problem is, should women give up their private, safe spaces, so that a very small percentage of the population can have equality.

Women feel that we have fought long and hard for the rights we currently have. If we lose the right to single sex spaces, we are not only letting men in, but we are letting in some men who actually have bad intentions to girls and women.

If TWAW, then 50% of the population is shafted. If it’s the other way around, and you exclude the predators and fetishisists, then it’s a very small percentage of the population (1%, 5%?, I don’t know), that will continue to be discriminated against.

I hope what I’ve said makes sense.

If any of the wiser mumsnetters think I’ve got anything wrong, or my reasoning is addled, please let me know. As I said, this is just my take on it.

Thumpsquids · 17/01/2023 12:29

Apologies if I've misread something, but why would any male care about the harms this ideology brings to the rights of women and girls, if he already has a history of assaulting women?

AlisonDonut · 17/01/2023 12:32

What happened was this:

A man who was a transsexual wanted to marry his male partner. So he went to the European Court of Human Rights to say that banning this marriage was against his human rights.

They agreed.

The UK then fudged some legislation to allow him, if he 'declared' himself a woman, and lived as a woman [which is basically accessing female spaces without being stopped] then he could call himself a woman.

They made damn sure though, that a woman who declared herself a man couldn't inhert anything in front of her younger brother [because they know this is a lie and men can't lose out here].

Since then, many many men have worked out that this genuis bit of legislation means they can pretend they are women in order to access female spaces. It regularly comes on once an arrest has been made.

Because of the rise of porn and hyper femininity [eg lip fillers, girls having to be perfectly made up to compete with the porn stars for male attention], young girls who don't want to be hyper feminine are accused of being manly or boyish and this in turn makes them feel like they should be boys. And the medical institutions are happy to help them along.

Because there was a study amongst troubled trans people years ago that asked them if they felt suicidal they have used this to recommend people blackmail medics, parents, schools affirm their fantasies otherwise they are saying they would rather the person killed themselves.

Everyone got scared that they'd be accused of being transphobic, and anyone stepping out of line got doxxed, harassed, threatened with the sack and in some instances, sacked, cancelled etc if they dared to say 'hang on a minute'. Which in itself prolifirates more fear of being doxxed, sacked, cancelled etc.

Various institutions that make their money from blockers and hormones invested some money into political parties eg the Lib Dems to have their support in legislation. It all has fallen under the guise of Queer Theory which exists to destabilise the norm.

All institutions are captured by this ideology and if someone steps out of line they receive a holy hell reining down on them. Sports is captured. Education is captured. Politics is captured. NHS is captured. The Police are captured. Everyone is scared stiff of saying bad things that put their jobs and lives at risk. So nobody says anything.

When has a woman's or gay movement ever had this amount of corporate support?

When have streets in London every flown Suffragette flags?

Why are the police handling humans dressed in kink outfits?

Please be gentle with me!
Please be gentle with me!
Please be gentle with me!
IwantToRetire · 17/01/2023 18:25

Hi OP - so sorry to hear what your husband did to you. And you may well know this but you could contact your local women's aid or the online chat service to talk this through with other women, so that should it happen again you know where to seek help.
Directory www.womensaid.org.uk/womens-aid-directory/
Live chat chat.womensaid.org.uk/
There is an online survivors forum survivorsforum.womensaid.org.uk/
(Sorry have assumed you are in England)

And about gathering facts to present to you husband. It would be nice to think he would at least listen to you as you have made it clear it is important to you.

But as much for you to feel you aren't alone, apart from mumsnet have you thought of following various campaigns such as Sex Matters, A Woman's Place UK, Labour Women's Declaration, Fair Play for Women, Let Women Speak and many others. Most are on both facebook and twitter as well as having web sites.

That way you can find the info that chimes with your feelings, because on one level it is such a huge issue you cant cover it all.

Good luck.

JoodyBlue · 17/01/2023 18:32

Sympathies to you @MyGhastIsFlabbered.

People try to muddle it. In simple terms the GRR is a problem because it will allow men to change legal sex to women without medical diagnosis and in 3 months. Changing legal sex means those men can be entitled to access women's protected spaces and rights unless excluded on a case by case basis.

Women need protected rights and safe spaces away from abuse and discrimination. It is not all men, but there are enough predators who will abuse.

That is my simple understanding.

Other issues are being able to speak freely/honestly. And educating children to understand that there are 2 sexes and they can behave how they like without feeling they don't belong in their body.

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