Keir Starmer fudge fudge waffle waffle

[xalo]

On Laura Kuenssberg just now.
Utterly useless. And why are both using gender instead of sex?

Brian Cox also talking shite.

Every time he gets a splinter up his arse from the fence he's sitting on, he's losing votes. I just don’t understand why he doesn't do the math - especially now with the census numbers - of why he's actively going out of his way to lose the votes of 51% of the population.

I wouldn't tell Starmer the right time.

I'll open the betting book now that if Sunak does nothing about Scotland, and swallows the lies, lies and more lies that Stonewall are busy charmingly feeding him, and we enter a period of utter hell for women, children and homosexuals...?

That when it all goes up in flames and we have politicians queueing up to condemn it, bloody Labour will be right at the front to say how it was all the Tory party and nothing to do with them gov, they were on whichever side suited them devoid of any kind of morals the right side all the time.

We're going to have to set up a party of our own to have anyone to vote for.

That's what KJK has said she's going to do later this year, mainly to bring direct plain speaking to the forefront.

She was going to stand against Eddie Izzard if he had been selected as Sheffield's parliamentary candidate, but has now said she wants to stand against Sir Keir - not expecting to win, but to force the obvious conversation.

Working title is 'the other party' but she has said she might change that.

Great that Laura K said there had been lots of emails from women about this but why didn’t she ask him what these “indignities” in the current system are that he kept referencing? If you were watching without much knowledge of the debate you’d be mislead by this description.

I do have some sympathy with Starmer though. I think the centre/left voter population really is split on this issue. Many (not all) of my nice, intelligent friends and colleagues have pronouns on their emails etc. So I kind of don't blame him sitting on the fence for now and letting the Tories sort it out.

I'm actually heartened that Starmer isn't definitely placing himself on the self ID side. I think he gets the issues but knows it's toxic.

When he says he "wants to modernise the system and is looking at all options" I think in practice they would go for something similar to the Tories i.e. keep the GRC rules pretty much as they are now. I may be wrong though.

I would still vote Labour / Lib Dem over the Tories if there was an election tomorrow (sorry)

There's a little progress in that he stated that he thinks 16 is too young (despite the fact Labour MSPs voted for it). That allows a discussion about infertility, double mastectomies and the dangerous impacts on growing bodies and minds of puberty blockers. Also allows the dodgy nature of the groups currently gaslighting the young to be highlighted. So it opens a door.
The latest sleight of hand is to use "safe spaces" instead of single sex spaces. So that needs challenging.
No mention of TWAW, but the usual attempts to silence women describing "toxic" debates.
Good that the BBC are (finally) challenging this - can't wait to see someone with a grip of the nuances to challenge Starmer for his feeble thinking.

Mark Harper just brought up JKR and said how badly she had been treated (which, even though he is an arse, Brian Cox also said). So good that the commentary on this is becoming more balanced.

The indignities in the system for women include rape and exclusion.

It's a little worse than a beaurocratic process or the suggestion of third spaces.

This is still, always and exclusively, phrased referencing the feelings and needs and experiences of men and with extreme double standards not applied to women. Starmer is as heavily misogynist as the liberal left is to its core. I'm starting to think there is no party not.

Starmer would do well to listen to that as JK USED to be a major Labour Party donor.

At least this is being discussed everywhere.
KS needs to realise that this issue is not going away.

I hate that it's always bloody men asked about this. Ask us women, it affects us. We should be on a working committee deciding what's right and wrong. Mens feelings shouldn't come into this. Because that's what's caused this whole shit show, a few men deciding they'd like to play at being women, coming from their place of male advantage to demand rights which we've had to fight fucking hard for!

I had to explain to my 18 year old son today that if he takes his little sister shopping he may have to let her go in to changing rooms where there could be fully biological men who could rape her and because they 'identify' as women won't be able to be charged with rape and their crime will go down as violent sexual assault by a woman on a minor.

A KS-KJK debate would be a thing of beauty but I can't for one minute see him agreeing to it.

“Doesn’t have a point of view
knows not where he’s going to “

I understand this as he supports self-ID for 18+.

What "indiginities"? Compared to what? Applying for benefits if you're disabled? I don't fucking think so.

Self-ID. That's his policy. Pretending women have been behaving like TRAs. That's his approach. That's what he thinks of women and children.

I'll never vote for this. No, no, and no.

twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1614557832728444934?s=46&t=pre3yKmaZSTo_Byw99Ecig

I think it's good - the progress has been slow but steady, and progress is being made. Think about this discourse even just 3 years ago, this issue was hidden away, the only people caring about it being rampant transphobes. Lisa Nandy was saying she thought male rapists should be allowed to go to female prisons if they wanted to. Starmer was in favour of self id, it was one of their promises

Today on the BBC Starmer categorically said 16 was too young, going directly against the new Scottish law passed by Labour MSPs. And he said that there were issues with the EA - Labour MSPs put forward amendments about this and they were rejected. I know they still voted to pass the bill but it wasn't straightforward. Labour now know that this is much more complicated than 'be kind'. Keir is waffling and fudging because he knows there is a problem here, but things are moving in the right direction.

I have no sympathy at all. He wants to lead the country allegedly. You dont become a leader by sitting on the fence of something this important. Half the country will be impacted.
Such a coward. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Fudging this issue as he always has is a cowardly thing.

If he doesnt have the backbone to stand up for women/against what 3% of the population then he doesnt have what it takes to lead the country. I think this is very important and a lot stands on woman meaning woman not swirly fluttery feelings.
He might think it's not important and he is wrong, so again not leader of the country material.

I expect someone who would like to lead the country to have some clue. He doesnt or is too scared, again a scared man cannot lead the country. Whichever way I look at this he is not the right man.

Re the GRR Bill, I think he views us as guinea pigs and is waiting to see how it goes over the next couple of years and he’ll use that to determine his position for the next General election. I don’t think he’ll do anything but waffle until then.

I agree @rogdmum. Mr "I used to be DPP dontcha know" Starmer suddenly wants to wait and see what the legal advice says? Not really credible.

Mark Harper had a reasonable position and didn't even try to play the "two sides are equally toxic" card (twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1614568610898542593?s=46&t=Bici_MMvRpXq7VAjcvSPwA)

Time for "one for the blokes" bingo:

twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1614563863982411777?s=46&t=Bici_MMvRpXq7VAjcvSPwA

He's a politician what do you expect ?

None of them ever have an answer for the question asked them in these telly slots , just spout whatever they want to promote .

Doesn't matter what colour badge they are wearing every one of them is a lying slimeball

However, what he did not say was that he would not have challenged the bill if he was in Rishi’s position. He glossed over the fact that he did not agree with major components of the bills yet his party in Scotland was instrumental in getting the bill through despite his reservations.

He also recognises the potential negative impacts under the EA which Scottish Government has declared are simply not there.

While he waffled, it was the things he didn’t say that were more interesting.

I agree though, he is just going to sit back and see where this lands. He has that luxury now.

There can never be any going back to ‘this isn’t an issue that the majority of people are concerned about’. Caroline Nokes on the other hand is playing plenty of slipperyness. I have never seen her show one iota of understanding about what she referred to also as ‘safe spaces’, she even tacked on single sex.

When either of those two politicians talk about safe spaces and ‘women’ and in Nokes case ‘single sex spaces’, I always feel like I have been gaslit. Because they have shown themselves to say the things they believe people want to hear, while upholding that 1% of ‘women’ are not female and I can only assume Nokes is talking about GRC holders included in ‘single sex spaces’.

And that has always been the issue. It is so fucked up and I dare any person who supported ‘they just want to be called ‘women’, be kind!’ to deny that this ambiguity is not the direct outcome of that annexing of language. Only a fool would say the normalisation of calling males ‘women’ did not largely contribute to this whole fucking mess.

'Single sex spaces' is utterly meaningless if you believe that men can become women.

I gather Caroline Nonkes is peddling the "born in the wrong body" shtick.

I thought that expression was disapproved of now by the genderwoosters.

Should be Nokes. Although Nonkes has a rather good thing to it.

I gather she's always been very keen on this gendered soul nonsense. See also Layla Moran. And yet, we are often told, "nobody" or at least "nobody of significance" is claiming that people can be born in the wrong body.