A Marxist view of the Left's treatment of 'gc' women

[ArabellaScott]

This is from a fairly well read independence blog.

'The rise of individualism and the centering of individual wants as human rights at the expense of collective needs represent both the extension of a consumer society and the guarantee of its reproduction. It means nothing is safe if anything can be appropriated, if anything can be claimed to belong to those who simply want it or feel it, without situating that want within the social relations within which it is embedded.'

www.barrheadboy.com/left-censorship-and-exclusion-against-gender-critical-women-a-marxist-critique/

This is a damn good piece. About time too. Where are all the dialectical materialists lately. Can't shut them up normally. Ashamed to say I've never heard of Deirdre O Neill. Will try to follow her.

Havent read your link yet but what a fantastic paragraph you've quoted.

'immunization from rational dialogue'
love it

Interesting, although I think she misses the last step in the chain which is that it is not just about getting into female spaces and absolute treatment as females - it is about exploiting the power to dominate, control and direct those spaces and the language of those spaces to male 'woman' benefit and away from female benefit or even recognition of female needs, which have become a dirty secret for fear of anger from the powerful new entrants. And to dominate, control and dictate to females within those spaces, along with punishing females who do not perform the required cartwheels on command, which is increasingly including the right to behave unacceptably and in ways that females find intimidating and distressing with demands that females do not look, or show distress, or try to avoid - in fact requiring victims to behave nicely as commanded.

There's a lot in this that isn't Marxist or anything else political: it's gone into quite other realms beneath that flag.

And a lot of why it's been allowed to get there is down to the Left having a very serious problem with Authoritarian Follower personalities in its ranks very much enjoying the opportunities this gives them, along with the historic severe issue the Left has had with misogyny.

thanks, nils, I have to admit I wouldn't know a Marxist argument if it bit me on the arse.

Not read it yet but that's a fantastic quote.

I've been thinking that all this is very capitalist/ consumer driven but don't know enough about the theories and politics to comment beyond.

My ideas come from how it's very much about chasing aesthetics and preoccupation with image.

Great post nils.

Moves from consumerism to patriarchy as it always has.

Women are very exploited under consumerism. Adverts particularly drive certain trends and looks more so for women and girls than men. Which is in part part of patriarchal control.

Men are getting in on the act for attention and also demanding more.

thanks, nils, I have to admit I wouldn't know a Marxist argument if it bit me on the arse.

Dunno, I don't think you have to be a Marxist to roughly understand the basic point of Marxism, do you?

That's the thing that really bugs me - seeing groups like socialists, atheists, civil libertarians and feminists (or at least people who identify as that) going along with something which clearly goes against their most fundamental principles, in a way that's obvious to a layman.

Sorry, it's individualistic, religious, authoritarian and benefitting men, respectively.

The only way each of you could go along with it is as a result of far too much navel-gazing so you lose track of what your group's fundamental point is. Every single fucking group full of idiots who want to "disrupt" or "queer" things - ie not do their fucking job. If you don't want to do socialism, atheism, civil liberties or feminism, then maybe leave those groups for people who do, eh?

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Interesting background reading here: www.mindingtherapy.com/authoritarian-personality-syndrome/

and here: substratewars.com/tag/guardian-syndrome/

all of it is relevant, but particularly look at the guardian moral precepts section.

I quite like the comment to the end of the Authoritarian article that says 'we've got decades of research and tests and scales for right wing authoritarianism but left wing authoritarianism looks..... different..... and no one's really figured it out yet.'

So fucking good. She nails so many of my spinning thoughts.

""It is important to acknowledge that sexism is an historical process that manifests itself differently in different historical epochs. This latest manifestation of the social relations between men and women has much in common with previous ones concerned as it is with the subjugation of biological females, their disciplining and the insistence they conform to the needs of men. It is to all intents and purposes yet another patriarchal strategy designed to keep women subservient to the demands of men by actually erasing the category of women as a meaningful one."

I think we are getting quite a taste of it here!

by actually erasing the category of women as a meaningful one

It's horrific.

And then you read articles about millions of physically missing women due to gender (sex!) discrimination. We can't fucking win. This is why women as a class is so important:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36599266/

And when women can become "men" more are lost.

I have read another Marxist interpretation of the gender identity ideology earlier which argued that the oppression of women is based on material reality, not some unfalsifiable inner beliefs. If correct, this would suggest that Marxism would be gender critical. I believe Engels' arguments would support that (from his book which I can see on my shelf).

That's because most Marxists, socialists etc are just larpers, they are in fact radical liberals.

I followed the first link on the authoritarian personality and then browsed that website as it seemed pretty interesting.... Until....

www.mindingtherapy.com/transgender-gender-identity-books/?unapproved=42908&moderation-hash=caff07707cd274ca69a64d78837f90c1#comment-42908

She signposts to lots of ridiculous pro trans books, including one workbook for the partners of people transitions! Workbook- what on how to get effectively gaslit? now I cannot take anything that woman says seriously
She is either under/misinformed or virtue signalling. Or both.

I am starting to feel this gender ideology is a really good test for measuring someone's capacity for critical thinking/reason/honesty.

I wonder if she will reply to my comment:

I was taking your website seriously until this point. Do you actually support medicalising children who like playing with toys stereotypical to the other sex?

And do those children have anything in common with a middle aged man who has a cross dressing fetish?

Look up autogynephilia.

Does an autogynephile have the right to access women’s bathrooms, to unconsentingly include women in their fetish?

One thing in common with those identified as ‘trans’ – they make pharmaceutical companies ALOT of money.

”The Dutch protocol was the result of a deeply flawed 2006 study which it has now been revealed was funded by Ferring pharmaceuticals, the company that markets the drug Triptorelin as a puberty blocker.”

^thepostmillennial.com/maker-of-puberty-blockers-funded-original-study-that-led-to-gender-affirming-care-for-minors-dutch-investigative-report^

So now I have to question – were you paid to make such a terrible advert for the trans industry complex, or are you empty virtue signalling?

Either way it undermines everything else you have written. I now have no faith in any of your other idea

After looking up the workbook, maybe it isnt that bad....

Anyway sorry im kind of derailing here

I read this recently:

'"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C. S. Lewis

The transgender movement is neither progressive nor radical because it has no wish to transcend the limitations of capitalism but rather to isolate the signifiers of a socially constructed femininity in order to reinforce and reproduce them. Therefore the potential for a radical rejection of a patriarchal capitalist society is impossible within trans ideology, which works to maintain the divisions that contribute to its continuing existence. Instead of working towards a more androgynous society in which there are not female qualities and male qualities separate and imposed on each gender, the trans movement wishes to sustain the divisions that reinforce the oppression of women and places unrealistic demands on men in relation to the concept of masculinity.

Excellent.

Ah, found the author's Medium:

medium.com/@deirdreoneill_40170

Oh Arabella I originally read your quote without the 'y' in those words... Whoops!

Might be misremembering (not completely sober..), but is she not one of the directors of the Adult Human Female documentary? (Attempted to view it in Nottingham. Apparently the Methodists don't do free speech any more.)

Yes I think so.