How did this happen?

[Fairylightson]

What happened that the trans issue got taken so seriously, that women are seen as privileged, women's spaces, needs and rights are so readily trampled over. What were the conditions in place that led to that?

I was thinking about the Me too movement - about so many women speaking up and it briefly feeling like a powerful moment - and yet so quickly the risk to women isn't taken seriously. (Although I remember as Me Too was happening thinking there would be a backlash before change happened).

The people who only a short time ago would have thrown themselves behind women's issues - now are so dismissive.

For me personally, complacency being a young adult in the early 1990s. I didn't know anything about feminism really. Then I was in an abusive relationship for a long time so when I came out of that I was focused on domestic violence issues and getting my life back together. After that I was very much live and let live and it is such a small number what does it matter. Then my amazing friend introduced me to the topic and then I was deep diving into all sorts of rabbit holes and there was no coming back. Filling in the GRA reform consultation (2018) was my first bit of action.

I listened to a you tube by Wombs with a View and they mentioned the Denton's playbook and how the first stage was to get men in women's prisons, once this was achieved it would be easy from then on.

Yes, I think this is in response to the Me Too movement. Women were speaking up and supporting each other. Now women are no longer free to speak up, unless it's in support of males.

The people who only a short time ago would have thrown themselves behind women's issues - now are so dismissive.

I agree, it's shocking. They never meant it. It was just virtue signalling.

Almost immediately after, we had what happened to Amber Heard to put us firmly back in our places too.

It is so deeply depressing to see this in the context of MeToo but yes, it appears it was all empty virtue signalling.

I think it dates back far longer than that.

There was a huge backlash against the advances made by women's liberationists, and the media (surprise surprise) just treated that as the new trend.

3rd wave feminism then made it legitimate to be scornful of older feminists as being out of touch, and anti men, etc., etc.. But most importantly 3rd wavers were the generation who have gone through university when queer politics had taken hold, and women's studies were dumped in favour of gender studies.

They moved into positions of influence, eg the editor of the Guardian a woman, has said queer politics guide all her decisions. And long before the trans issue became so wide spread the Guardian would delete comments form women about feminism being about the sex class of women being discriminated against by the sex class of men.

I am sure someone on FWR has written about how the concept of gender rather than sex led to what had been a few people with actual gender dysphoria wanting to transition, being turned into a policy about identity. And effectively the GRA, created to get round the ban on same sex marriages, became the trojan horse that let a far wider group get GRC.

And then of course Stonewall, and other LGB groups, seemed to look round for ways of continuing to need to exist, and via the influence of queer politics, included the T. Although logically it made no sense to do that as both L and G about about same sex attraction.

I think, particularly in America, MeToo started to be seen as part of a "woke" agenda given the language used. But this is more those who appropriate leadership of this movement, than what happened at a grass roots level. And what Me Too did show is how misogyny and violence against women had never gone away. And look where we are now with the increase in incel culture, pick up artists.

The campaign against the proposed reforms to the GRA did mean a lot more women became aware, but I'm afraid that for more than 40 years feminism has not been "fashionable".

So even though 2 women a week are killed by a man she knows, somehow this just seems to be non news worthy.

But any implication that someone who is trans may have been misnamed is taken as a far worse tragedy.

I think it is totally about the value, or rather the lack of value, that women have in society.

I've just posted this in another thread and have lazily copied and pasted it here.

In this country I think the Civil Service dictate the way ministers think and as it is captured the advice the ministers get is biased. Add in that MPs of all stripes often have children who have been steeped in the ideology so they are getting the message that everyone is for this approach from both home and work.

"I think the problem here is the Civil Service. When departments get a new minister a briefing is put together of all the main points and lines to take. The Civil Service is completely captured and pushes gender ideology at all times. A new staff network has been set up to support those who believe that sex matters, and the daily vitriol and complaints they are getting that the network is allowed to exist is frightening."

Misogyny has been going strong for thousands of years. The last 100 years are just a blip.
Every generation is a new crop of loud misogynistic men where the decent majority are always quiet and think it's all a bit of a laugh. And for women, sadly there's a new crop of hand maidens with a smaller number of loud strong feminist girls.
It takes women a few more years and life experience to become feminists. By then we are already on a backfoot.

The MeToo movement I think is over estimated by women who were in the thick of it. It was women speaking out but there wasn't much actual (any?) action or change stemming from it. And of course lip service while plotting and waiting their turn from misogynists.

It's also that real commitment to beliefs and values such as inclusion has become a wholly empty 'keeping up with the Jones's' and fashion statement/progressive fad thing. It's like the next award you claim and shove up the plaque/add it to your logo/speak the corporate buzzwords thing. One is dumped quickly when the New Thing appears.

There was never any real understanding, feeling, application of the belief and care as how to integrate it with new insights, new developments, it's just the dash to join the In Crowd.

Sadly the TQ+ lobby are going to join women, disabled and people of other faiths when the Next Fad emerges, and it's going to shock the hell out of them, but considering how they have exploited this without any glimmer of conscience, my compassion's been a bit burned out.

I agree that misogyny is endemic and perpetual, but how did law-making, corporations and the media get so completely taken over by weird fringe ideology about women having penises?

I think its hard to see institutionalised, deeply ingrained sexism because its the water we swim in.

Many many studies have revealed unconscious sexist bias.

You've read the Denton's report?

Another factor, I think, is the trans lobby are very good at playing the victim, and making everyone slightly afraid of them.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

A lot of money has been thrown at it, mostly from super-rich men from the US who want access to women’s spaces and can afford to fund foundations, lobbying, medical advertising and university funding. It hasn’t occurred suddenly. It’s been years in the pipeline, like a hostile corporation taking over an unsuspecting business after secret manoeuvering of shares and positions.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Yes, and the Dentons report should be much more widely known.

And I recognise that it’s now dangerous to speak out against the new dogma.

But I’m still with BlackForestCake, baffled by the implausibility of it. How did it ever even get off the ground?

We currently have a poster on another thread using words like kindness.

Don’t underestimate the power of ‘be kind’.

The Denton report is the tactic - but my point was that it falls on fertile ground. I really can't square the circle in my mind of reputable institutions and govt whose job it was to look out for safeguarding / VAWG / fairness etc. to throw women under the bus with such gusto unless I factor in misogyny.

They really hates us so much otherwise why would they go along with it?

I think this started before #metoo, I think it started by stealth using pretty, passing trans women as an acceptable face of the movement (e.g. LaVerne Cox in Orange is the new black in 2014) And exploiting children who felt they had been "born in the wrong body" (e.g Jazz Jennings "I am Jazz" in 2011)

For me a good illustration of how people were being given an overly sympathetic portrayal of transpeople was the repirting about Tara Hudson being sent to a male prison in 2015 - the press coverage was all about how this pretty woman was being sent to mens prison because she hadn't done paperwork.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-34984635.amp

However not much digging was needed to show this person was in fact someone with a history of violence who made a living from their fully functioning "7inch surprise"

At that time if you questioned trans women access to female space at all you were very much in the minority and would be called a bigot

I think things are better now in that at least we are having an open debate. In 2016 the conservatives published a report proposing Self ID and better access for TW to womens spaces. They didn't even consult women's groups about it and were very inflammatory in how they talked about women who expressed concerns

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/maria-miller-says-only-hostility-to-transgender-report-came-from-women-purporting-to-be-feminists-a6830406.html%3famp

Now they are looking at the Scottish legislation to check its safe for women. So that's a big change.

I also think the sports issue is driving a lot of open conversation about how best to balance women and TW needs fairly.

And transsexual children. How did so many people get taken in by the idea that children could be transsexual?

Also....this BBC documentary, aired in 2017, was withdrawn and you couldn't find it to watch,because it was so "transphobic" and Zucker was accused of doing "conversion therapy"

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3csk76j

Press guidelines protected peoples trans identities so many news stories were a mockery

Honestly, thanks to fairplay for women, transgender trend etc, things are so.much more open than they were 5 years ago.

This. A few creepy men banged on the toilet door, and a whole flood of mostly young, middle class, overeducated, Hashtag Feminist women opened it and went, "So sorry for the delay, come in!".

Women who were supposed to be against sexism decided to "destroy patriarchy" by pretending sex didn't make any difference to reality, gender was just a fun bit of dress up, and acting like all boundaries and norms were oppressive. Pervy and genuinely misogynistic males of course lapped it up and kept pushing it further. And then there's the men and women who don't get it but want to "be kind" (and lazy).

People have been tricked into thinking that trans is basically:
Gay Rights + Women's Lib = Mega Virtue. Despite it actually being detrimental to both.

This is from 2018, so lots has happened since then, but it's a good overview.

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

The book "Trans" provides a good timeline too.

I watched the documentary 'Five Steps to Tyranny' the other day. Basically about our psychology often making most of us conform especially to authority even to do horrible things like turn on our neighbours (except some agitators and challengers). I think while emerging ideas and theories conveyed in soundbites like 'don't debate my rights', 'silence is violence', 'educate yourself' (and generally protest responses to the lack of progress on equality for gay people and people of colour) are really interesting and even necessary for social change to occur, the actual impact of coming to see all debate or different opinions as bigoted, of seeing one opinion as correct, of promoting Stonewall (or other groups) as the one authority on how to act as an individual or a company, of sanctioning wrongthink, has really exposed us to a kind of social tyranny. I like disagreement on these boards and I admire people who challenge and question and agitate. We need them even when we don't agree with them. We must stop ourselves in any situation (even war) from seeing it as them and us, dehumanising or denigrating a group. I have seen a bit of that on the boards today. We are all just humans muddling along in our own social context.

The five steps are:

“us” and “them” (prejudice and the formation of a dominant group)
obey orders (the tendency to follow orders, especially from those with authority)
do “them” harm (obeying an authority who commands actions against our conscience)
“stand up” or “stand by” (standing by as harm occurs)
exterminate (the elimination of the “other”)