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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How did this happen?

36 replies

Fairylightson · 07/01/2023 22:20

What happened that the trans issue got taken so seriously, that women are seen as privileged, women's spaces, needs and rights are so readily trampled over. What were the conditions in place that led to that?

I was thinking about the Me too movement - about so many women speaking up and it briefly feeling like a powerful moment - and yet so quickly the risk to women isn't taken seriously. (Although I remember as Me Too was happening thinking there would be a backlash before change happened).

The people who only a short time ago would have thrown themselves behind women's issues - now are so dismissive.

OP posts:
Britinme · 08/01/2023 17:14

That Jane Clare Jones piece is superb

ArabellaScott · 08/01/2023 17:32

'I really can't square the circle in my mind of reputable institutions and govt whose job it was to look out for safeguarding / VAWG / fairness etc. to throw women under the bus with such gusto unless I factor in misogyny.'

Well, yes. Misogyny is a requirement.

PriOn1 · 08/01/2023 17:44

SomethingLikeThisNow · 08/01/2023 16:13

The Denton report is the tactic - but my point was that it falls on fertile ground. I really can't square the circle in my mind of reputable institutions and govt whose job it was to look out for safeguarding / VAWG / fairness etc. to throw women under the bus with such gusto unless I factor in misogyny.

They really hates us so much otherwise why would they go along with it?

I think the campaign has been very carefully curated behind closed doors. If you look back a few years to the discussions about placing men in women’s prisons and giving more general access to women’s spaces, the entire discussion and action was usually carried out with the focus only on men who claimed they were women. If you ask for impact assessments, particularly with reference to women, not only do they not exist, but sometimes there is almost a dawning realization that everyone had literally forgotten about the potential impact on women.

So the background, in my opinion, is that until now we have had a series of waves, where groups were recognized to be oppressed or unequal, and moves were made to put legal processes in place to improve the situation. The earliest in the UK was probably women’s voting rights, gradually followed by other rights. Amongst other things, there were also changes made to improve equality for those with disabilities and homosexual people.

To me, and presumably many others, when the campaigning started for “trans rights” it was very much assumed that this was the latest in a line of groups that had been identified that needed their countries to put solutions in place for “problems” that were put forward. Those determined to do good (and politicians who wanted to be seen to do good) seized upon what appeared to be the next wave of equality campaigning. And having invested in it privately and publically, it becomes very difficult to back down.

It’s been very cleverly done. I don’t think we should underestimate the subtlety with which plausible people have been manoeuvred into positions of relative power. Men have inserted themselves into many leadership or influential positions within women’s groups and, having been sold the line that they were a terribly vulnerable group, who should be welcomed wherever possible, they generally were and it was only afterwards, when women who were not happy with the dynamic they brought, then found they were ostracized, rather than the male interloper.

So there is a background, not just of obvious misogyny, but of the expectation that women would be kind and accepting. They already had their rights, so they should be generous to others worse off than themselves. The sexism in our society and the expectations of greater tolerance from one sex, made this something of a slam dunk, I think. The fertile ground was that many of those groups you described were filled with those who wanted to do good and be fair to everyone. Unfortunately, they failed to see that the demands being made were not fair at all, and the power of the lobby, who established early that anyone objecting must be a bigot, meant that those who did object, were often pushed to the margins. That the capture goes so deep is, indeed astonishing, but I don’t find it so hard to see how we got here.

NecessaryScene · 08/01/2023 17:48

Well, yes. Misogyny is a requirement.

Or at least not seeing women as real people, but I guess that amounts to the same outcome.

One of my favourite little Jane Clare Jones quotes about what this movement has revealed:

twitter.com/SoniaPoulton/status/1138028847138562049

(From a presumably-never-to-be-completed attempted 2019 documentary?)

OldCrone · 08/01/2023 18:12

AdamRyan · 08/01/2023 16:31

Also....this BBC documentary, aired in 2017, was withdrawn and you couldn't find it to watch,because it was so "transphobic" and Zucker was accused of doing "conversion therapy"

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3csk76j

Press guidelines protected peoples trans identities so many news stories were a mockery

Honestly, thanks to fairplay for women, transgender trend etc, things are so.much more open than they were 5 years ago.

The documentary is still available on some sites, like this one:

www.dailymotion.com/video/x58s24i

It's worth watching if you haven't seen it. It was what showed me how many people all over the world believe that children can be transsexual. I had no idea what was going on before that.

I watched it partly because of the attempts to prevent it being shown by the BBC. Otherwise I'd probably not even have known it was on.

SinnerBoy · 08/01/2023 22:56

Helleofabore · Today 16:06

Don’t underestimate the power of ‘be kind’.

I think the TRA zealot translation of "be kind," is "Shut up, bitch!" I mean, I could be wrong, I'm not a linguist.

Looking at the Denton report, I was struck by the phrase "lobbying behind a veil." To my mind, that is strong evidence that they are utterly dishonest and know that they are.

Why else, in a democracy, would they want to sneak in laws, whilst people are distracted?

Helleofabore · 08/01/2023 23:19

Anyone who had discounted the Denton’s report seemed to disappear when just a couple of years ago the Transgender Law Center in the USA released something similar on their messaging guide.

By that stage the message was clear though, don’t mention sport!!! They said that sport was an unwinable argument. this was after Laurel Hubbard went to the Olympics.

PDF here.

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

SinnerBoy · 09/01/2023 00:27

Ah.

"Don't get into an argument with Alison Bailey! She knows what she's talking about!!!"

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2023 00:33

From the document posted by Helle

Since the Race Class Narrative was designed to inoculate against dog whistles and make the case for collective action for our collective good, it makes sense that this approach falls short on sports, specifically. That said, a Race Class Gender Narrative does help us call into question the motives of people introducing these bills and even cast doubt on their necessity as a matter of state legislation (as opposed to sports association/local school policy). At present, no arguments we tested bested the opposition in a direct debate on sports policy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/01/2023 00:34

So don't stop talking about sports, they admit it's their kryptonite.

Helleofabore · 09/01/2023 03:35

And, of course, da da da da! What happened the next month this document was published?

You’ll never guess!

A swimmer with the surname Thomas burst onto the news!

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