Reuters report on detransitioners

[ArabellaScott]

www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/

Long, detailed and thoughtful piece that looks at evidence and current narratives and treatment in different countries.

This is significant, because Reuters is well respected as a news outlet. Seems a shift from the 'affirmation only' approach, to me.

This, quote from the article, just...

This stood out for me:

However, Bowers, WPATH’s president, is among several gender-care specialists who say patients are ultimately responsible for choices they make about treatment, even as minors. They should not be “blaming the clinician or the people who helped guide them,” she said. “They need to own that final step.”

Some of those regretting their ‘treatment’ are as young as 13 when they stared on PBs.

But they “need to own” what their parents and medical ‘professionals’ facilitated, according to this POS.

I read it quickly, so perhaps i missed it, but I didn't see any recognition that they may have it backwards. They claim that people detransition because of anti-trans attacks. I think some don't detransition because they're terrified of the reaction from their community.

The inverse of the affirmation and love-bombing that, I suspect, seduces them into transitioning in the first place. I've seen videos by transpeople as to how important validation/pronouns from other people are in order to drown out their own doubts. But they don't recognise what they are saying. They just claim 'if you think you're trans, you're probably trans'.

It's good though that it's getting some more exposure.

This quote from Dr. Edwards-Leeper from WPATH stood out to me:
‘Stronger data on outcomes, including the circumstances that make regret more likely, would also help transgender teens and their parents make better-informed decisions as they weigh the benefits and risks of treatments with potentially irreversible effects’

We have been shouting about better research for years, but researchers with genuine intentions to support trans people have been denied funding.
And acknowledging that parents have an input into decision making should be beamed into every school across the globe. End this nonsense in schools now!

I read it a few days ago. One thing that jumped out at me was who seemed positive about doing more research - mainly transmen and women and who seemed more critical - transwomen?

Well WPATH's president can say what he wants but, ultimately, it will be the court which determines whether an individual clinician was negligent, and consent must be INFORMED consent. I'm guessing this might be an issue for some people.

I also noted that parents were told they needed to affirm or their child would commit suicide. I can't imagine the pressure that puts someone under.

I'm just at the beginning of it but this leapt out at me

The stories he heard convinced him that doctors need to provide detransitioners the same supportive care they give to young people to transition

but thing is they probably do get the same supportive care, but without the smiles and tik tok clips that hide they fact that actually when you are transitioning the last thing the care you are getting is supportive.

It is not supportive care. It is "long con" care and once you start to detransition you are of no use to the surgeons, to the pharmaceutical companies, to the cheer leading crowd on line.

You thought those people were supporting you to transition? They are supporting themselves: To make money, not to help you. To get you hooked for life on their drugs, not to help you feel better.To feel good about themselves, not you.

That's not support. That's a con.

But Reuters were also involved in the infamous Denton document, iirc. The one packed full of advice on how to get the trans agenda sneaked into mainstream society by every way possible.

This is them backtracking then?

Are you looking, Kier Starmer et al?

Ooh I just got to that not and came on to post out but I see you have.

Fucking Fucking Fucking bastardy bastard Arsehole.

However, Bowers, WPATH’s president, is among several gender-care specialists who say patients are ultimately responsible for choices they make about treatment, even as minors. They should not be “blaming the clinician or the people who helped guide them,” she said. “They need to own that final step.”

Children. Bloody children. You sick twisted immoral fucking arse.

That was supposed to include @IcakethereforeIam post but I think I was too annoyed to actually click the quote button

I've got to have a break from reading it the cat has just given up trying to snooze on me as I'm fidgeting to much as I'm annoyed and agitated.

Ooh, he's looped around and come back in for another go.

And calm breaths. Green grass, fluffy clouds. Green grass, fluffy clouds.

ahhh he's purring.

I'll finish this later.

Thanks for posting@ArabellaScott

But wonderful that he was prepared to say it on the record. It will leap out to anyone reading the article. And it's completely contrary to the medico-legal standards for consent, so it's helpful for all HCPs who are making the argument that we should stop looking to WPATH for guidance.

No worries Boiled, that quote has stood out for several of us. I'm not religious, I don't believe in heaven or hell or karma (or wishes), but sometimes I would wish for eternal damnation on people who don't get adequately punished for what they do in this life. Sometimes they get no punishment. Sometimes they get lauded for it and I can't even hope that their conscience troubles them.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't include people who forget to quote me in this small group

Oh I'm going to hell, but only to supervise the poor sods doomed to shovel coal onto the burning fire of eternal damnation.

Turns out It's not a religious thing as such it was set up as something of a student project when the universe was being created, and they've found it an efficient way to deal with eternal bloody gendered souls that just won't "be".

I've got a little apartment, turn down service, on site permanently staffed restaurant and spa. Cat 🐱 of choice. The contract is sweeet. Two hours every Third millenia and my own personal man servant Thomas, used to work as a Greek god, but they fell out of demand.

Plus if anything goes wrong they've got a union.

The stories he heard convinced him that doctors need to provide detransitioners the same supportive care they give to young people to transition

I'm too cynical now to interpret this as anything other than recognising an opportunity to continue the grift at the expense of confused and distressed patients.

Exploitative fuckers, every last one of them. I will not be charitable about these aresholes when the day of reckoning arrives.

Data will go up; we know this. They know this.

This so far too late but it's something that it's a trans person leading the research.

It's all going to get much worse before anything begins to improve. As much as I don't think it's healthy to share their experiences online; it may be that increasing numbers of detransitioners sharing their experiences online may help to sway the tide

I'm too cynical now to interpret this as anything other than recognising an opportunity to continue the grift at the expense of confused and distressed patients.

Quite. Research into mistaken transition isn't in the industry's best interests. Until the suing increases but even then it may not matter

If anyones on Twitter Kinnon Ross MacKinnon has added a thread about the research with a bit more information - sorry don’t know how to link twitter on my phone.

twitter.com/Kinnon_Ross

Thread:

twitter.com/Kinnon_Ross/status/1607742086161510400?cxt=HHwWgMDRgZi67M8sAAAA

From that twitter thread :

'The theme that emerged the least frequently in our study was detransition due to trans-related discrimination; it was exclusively transfeminine spectrum participants who felt their detransition was forced by lack of family support or workplace discrimination.'
..
'A final note on detrans recruitment (for researchers):
This is a challenging population to recruit due to social exclusion and mistrust of researchers - ESPECIALLY anyone associated with the field of gender care.'

Also a youtube vid shared on typology:

And, precisely nobody will be surprised to hear that Bowers is a gender reassignment surgeon. Guess they really should understand the law then, is it different in the US where Bowers operates?

Varies from state to state, as far as I know, waterwitch.

What a cop out!