Is there any democracy that is not in thrall to the gender ideologues?

[JellySaurus]

It's like the Western world has lost its marbles. Dictatorships and theocratic countries are bad news for women, anyway. Is there any democractic country that still recognises women to be adult human females excludively?

Why was this posted here? It is the sort of comment that should terrify anyone who cares about women’s rights. It is deranged, disordered, and vile.

You're easily 'terrified'. I did not say I agreed with the policies of Afghanistan. I said I now rethink my position on criticising them. I think they ought to be able to evolve, as we have over centuries. I think we are misplaced in interfering in other countries even when we may be right.

Other positions of responsibility invariably lead to an expectation that western feminists 'stand up' in behalf of marginalised women from other cultures, and criticism when they either don't or don't do it enough.

Does it purely come down to luxury beliefs and assuming they'll never go to prison or they'll never need rape crisis and therefore it doesn't affect them?

I think also personality types are at play. I’ve never been seriously sexually assaulted (just normal low level harassment) but since I was little I’ve always been naturally wary of men. I’ve always asked for female doctors, always preferred female inly hobby groups and always had a preference for female friends socially. My Dsis (who is very socially liberal) doesn’t have any of that wariness at all and I’m not sure she is able to put herself in the shoes of women who do.

I don’t think it’s happening in Korea - I don’t know about Japan or other East Asian or South East Asian countries (though obviously China isn’t democratic).
What about India?

Sorry - I’ve just seen that you said Western countries.

It is mostly younger women raised in a protective environment then?

It makes me wonder, does a very safe environment blunt womens natural intuition that men can be dangerous? Or is that too simple?

I was reading the comments on the Guardian news channel on YouTube about the Scotland bill. It was depressing. But a lot of: 'What do women think is actually going to happen to them', and 'there is no threat to women's safety.'

A woman in the comments was challenging me when I said men with bad motives will simply take advantage of it to access vulnerable women and children. She found this totally ludicrous. Unimaginable. It was unimaginable to her. That's where I was stumped and I let her win the debate.

I was abused and then later sexually assaulted as an adult so, I have never had anything but suspicion of men. The nicest men can be perves. This is like 2 + 2 = 4 for me. And I love men, but I am always wary. Even my own adult sons...I do not know what they are into, or what secret proclivities they may have. I don't think they have dark proclivities, but who knows?

But maybe I am too far the other way. But this la la land of all men who self-identify as trans are harmless is just very privileged to me.

I'm with you Dyson. I don't think any of the many lovely men I know would hurt me, but I don't know that for sure and that used to be the general rule in society. It's basic safeguarding. Now, we're being told it's cruel to have boundaries.

The thing is, it's just a lie, isn't it. If you are recognised as being male at birth and at some point you decide you want to change your sex on your birth certificate to female, you are lying about your sex.

It shouldn't matter why you want to lie about your sex.
We shouldn't have to prove that women are being raped by transwomen in prisons.
We shouldn't have to balance to feelings of vulnerable men in male prisons over the rights of women prisoners.
We shouldn't have to explain why and how much transwomen have an advantage or are a danger in female sport.
We shouldn't have to count just how many vulnerable young people are undergoing sterilisation and life altering surgery.
We shouldn't have to endlessly explain why we don't want even the nicest of transwomen in our changing rooms and toilets.
We shouldn't have to stand up to accusations of being right wing/ conspiracy theorists/ unkind / prejudiced / transphobic.

Because: YOU CANNOT BE BORN IN THE WRONG BODY and YOU CANNOT CHANGE YOUR SEX. It is simply a LIE to suggest that either of these things is true and the fact that so many intelligent people are prepared to lie, to change laws, to put women in danger, to not question who is asking for these changes and why and to censor the TRUTH even when they don't believe in this ideology is absolutely terrifying!

Thanks for reminding us DysonSpheres about why most women know why some men are a threat to women.
And yes Wellies54. It's a lie that anyone can change sex and no democracy should ever enshrine lies in law and compel citizens to believe in them. We leave that to the totalitarian fascist states.

Certainly in the UK, a lot of politicians are very open about how their policy is influenced by a close and generally young relative or other close contact. However, we elected that politician - not their relative or friend or their local shouty CLP member - to work for the best interests of us and our children. If they can't do that, if they so weak as to be led by their own children, then they haven't stand down. We shouldn't allow them to remain in office. I understand they need to use their own judgement to balance constituents' needs, views and interests but as this is such a niche and harmful middle-class fad their obsession with it is downright weird, especially when there are so many more important issues.

I agree, Wellies. I think it's interesting that a lot of the parliamentary opposition in Scotland came from MSPs pointing out all the risks from sexual predators. No one, as far as I'm aware, simply said: "This is nonsense. You are passing a law that contradicts science, and that makes as much sense as passing a law that says the earth is flat."

'they haven't stand down' should read 'they have to stand down' - stupid autocorrect.

Yeah royal corgi. That’s really it. It’s bonkers law

just that

at Xmas gathering yesterday everyone was scoffing at it

male cousin said how long does it take for me to be a woman now , oh and how do I live as a woman ?

This sounds silly but I sometimes wonder if these young women have had a diet of media with physically strong, powerful women that can beat up men with no problem. Think Buffy, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, etc.
Do they believe women are stronger than they actually are and people who say, 'wait a minute, men are stronger than you' are just saying women are weak and that's why they react so strongly to it?

@DysonSpheres 💐the abuse does definitely help refine that innate instinct a person has as regards to danger. You like me are probably more on alert because of it.

So your thought about those raised in projective environments must surely dampen that same instinct. If nothing bad had ever really happened to you then you don't pick up on the small signals, the tone of a voice, the tension that can hang in the air, the prickle of alertness you get when you enter a situation that looks fine but can hold hidden dangers.is

Maybe this is why we are being demonized for being to OTT, they just haven't had the unfortunate experiences that shake a lot of women's views on what It's safe and acceptable and what is not.

Protective not projective

It is mostly younger women raised in a protective environment then?

I don’t think so. My Dsis and I are both in our 50s and we weren’t brought up in a particularly protected environment. Our DM died when we were small and were left to our own devices from very young. I really think the difference between us due to our different character traits rather than social influence.

Although having said that I think it is definitely a mixture of social influence AND character.

This sounds silly but I sometimes wonder if these young women have had a diet of media with physically strong, powerful women that can beat up men with no problem. Think Buffy, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, etc.
Do they believe women are stronger than they actually are and people who say, 'wait a minute, men are stronger than you' are just saying women are weak and that's why they react so strongly to it?

I hadn't thought about the on-screen change in the portrayal of female characters. That could definitely play a role. I'd say that's a controlled environment. The ecological validity is essentially nil.

At the same time, we're told there's an epidemic of sexual harassment at school and in clubs. I actually don't believe it's worse than 30 years ago, until we add the internet. There, I think we have high reflection of the real world..but it's "online" so not real in many ways. There seems to be a massive disconnect between, for example, someone acting out their kink/fetish on the internet and the understanding that it's in any way related to real life.

It's rather odd that this generation claim to be the most sexually harassed, yet don't think what men act out in real life is in any way relevant to their own real life, if a mobile phone is in their hand/on a stand.

@Signalbox you see now I'm curious which of you was the eldest? Could that have any bearing, as if your the eldest you'll have shouldered a different burden than a younger sister would when your mother died. Don't worry you don't have to answer I'm just wondering wether the death of your mother caused different coping mechanisms to come into play?

I don't honestly think it's necessarily just one thing. I just find myself wondering why some people think how they do. I mean a lot of the current issues and arguments also depend on how much empathy a person has for the plight of others.

Sorry I'm just rambling now.

And isn't this one of the clever ways this ideology works in targeting vulnerable children. Imagine being a politician and your niece or nephew is trans. The child will undoubtedly have fragile mental health, they may have started down a controversial medical pathway, some family members will be totally on board and you have to play along with new name and pronouns and being lovely and caring. Any family member who does not agree is frowned on. You absolutely know that any comment you make publicly will be heard by this child. If you say what you think, you will be seen as betraying them. They will probably cry a lot and you will be blamed for the breakdown in their mental health and it will destroy relationships with many family members. It is a form of emotional blackmail and one of the reasons child transition is so vital to this ideology.

The trouble is countries like Hungary or Poland where they aren’t in thrall to gender ideology are horrific for LGB rights and women’s rights.

I find it disturbing the number of women who say that a few rapes and assualts might happen but even if they do, it will be such a small number that they don't matter because the important thing is for gender ideaology to be given full rein.

The number of people killed by drunk drivers is an average of 549 per year (https://www.quittance.co.uk/uk-drink-driving-statistics). This seems like a very small number compared to the UK population (67 million), but nobody would think it is acceptable because some people are physically addicted to alcohol, or even if they just enjoy having a drink and then want to go for a drive.

That’s very astute of you. Yes I’m 2 years older and was the eldest female child so that may also have had some influence but also personality wise I was always very sensitive and shy whereas my dsis is outgoing and sociable. We are chalk and cheese.

You sound like me and my sister, she's the older one and had to do the looking after and worrying about me as my mother wasn't fit for the job. She was also the shy sensitive one whereas i was the whirlwind of talk to anyone don't give a toss type. If i hadn't have been the one of us that was abused I'd have gone through life totally not getting it, whereas my sister could see things much more clearly from a much younger age than me.

Ughh I can't get my brain to find the words I'm trying to say today.

@SnowWayOut

This sounds silly but I sometimes wonder if these young women have had a diet of media with physically strong, powerful women that can beat up men with no problem. Think Buffy, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, etc.
Do they believe women are stronger than they actually are and people who say, 'wait a minute, men are stronger than you' are just saying women are weak and that's why they react so strongly to it?

Maybe you're onto something there because the person's reaction was so strong, maybe she thought I was denigrating all women by proxy or something. Yes, we have been exposed to a media narrative of women being stronger or at least as strong as men.

Looking back to the 80s and early 90s I remember films like The Accused, and other films highlighting domestic violence. Those sorts of films either aren't being made anymore or don't grab attention. No one likes to feel weak though so maybe a bit understandable.