Women's rights general conversations - Thread 2

[Kucingsparkles]

Continuation of Thread 1

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Another advantage of a single transferrable vote and multi-seat constituencies, every transfer counts, every vote counts, and they go out and hustle for them. The counts go on for days and are fascinating.

Yes, indeed. Cheers for this.

Have only just caught up with the latest thread. Lots of good stuff but thanks to @BoreOfWhabylon for the Elaine Miller video.

I’ve just stumbled across this account of how ex-Terf came to the view that she had been wrong. It is interesting to me that it says absolutely nothing of substance and is all about peer pressure/shaming which she now embraces:

aliciahendley.medium.com/dear-graham-f9a4ad46e8dc

(It is nine months old but was linked on Twitter)

She got the Be Kind memo all right. What a shame she appears to have used the Don't Throw Women Under The Bus memo to wipe her arse.

Hello new thread. Just checking in. Can't post on my phone on MN so my time here is limited to when am on my big, main, computer.

Hope all had a good Christmas. Wish you all a very happy new year

Hi Lawls, all went fine at ours. And yours?

You know what's cheered me up? (Apart from the jerkin, I mean merkin thread). That 2 threads in AIBU have remained in AIBU, without being shunted into this corner.

What surprises me about Alicia is that there is/was no one in her life who was even a little gender critical. It's a shame that she's buckled but it must be hard when absolutely everyone thinks you're a bit of a monster. What's sad is that she has refuted every question she's ever asked and any sense of herself as more than just some ridiculous TRA invented gender descriptor. She's not a woman, she's a cis woman, a person who menstruates, a person who can give birth, a person who has or will go through menopause. Wrt menopause I've found myself wondering if they will try to co-opt that or claim that it doesn't really exist.

What surprises me about Alicia is that there is/was no one in her life who was even a little gender critical.

And that Alicia has a PhD in clinical psychology. I find that quite concerning.

I’ve just stumbled across this account of how ex-Terf came to the view that she had been wrong. It is interesting to me that it says absolutely nothing of substance and is all about peer pressure/shaming which she now embraces:

I used to argue with her on Twitter before her Damascene conversion to "terf" from TRA, so 2017 or so. She was a nightmare.

Oh, so she's just gone full circle, then?

Reading Ceri Black's piece, I'm reminded of the Mr Logic character in Viz. Dealing with a queer theorist must be just as perplexing and infuriating.

Oh, so she's just gone full circle, then?

She has.

I’ve just stumbled across this account of how ex-Terf came to the view that she had been wrong.

That article has zero reasons in it. If I had completely changed my mind about something I would probably use the facts that had convinced me.

Really interesting opinion piece here about Gen Z, especially girls, by Jonathan Haidht ("The Coddling of the American Mind").

There has “never been a generation this depressed, anxious and fragile.” He attributes this to the combination of social media and a culture that emphasizes victimhood.

He talks about the high rate of depression in teen girls (25%), social media use by girls ( “It seems social because you’re communicating with people. But it’s performative. You don’t actually get social relationships. You get weak, fake social links.” ) about the widening gender-gap (in the old sense of the word) in that generation (that's saying a lot because the boys/men are messed up too), about how they are in defend mode and about how the culture has impacted those in English speaking countries.

Lots to unpack.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-national-crisis-of-generation-z-jonathan-haidt-social-media-performance-anxiety-fragility-gap-childhood-11672401345

I'm in peri menopause and I expect this isn't the kind of being a woman that they are even vaguely interested in, since it cannot be construed as a sexy life stage in any way.

@OmiOmy Is there an archived version of that article? Would like to read but am not a subscriber.

Actually no need, the FT trick worked for me (Google the headline, access from Google search result)

I couldn't work out how to do that either - googling just took me back to the wsj site.

Does this work?

archive.ph/BllYD

It did work. Very interesting article.

Thank you for that.

Sorry. Didn't realise it was just for subscribers.

I do think there is something in it, but the author’s habit of referring to Mr Haidt is a little affected. Or is that a WSJ style thing?

It claims that more young people than in previous generations are not getting the opportunity to develop their resilience to their own detriment. I think this is true. I’m interested in the idea that this is something that affects girls more than boys because of things like Instagram, and this has implications for equality. Not convinced by that yet. And the article doesn’t even touch on external factors which may be affecting girls’ mental health (e.g. influence of pornography on teenage boys).

So some interesting things, some omissions and I’m uncomfortable with the one-sided nature of it. Yes there is a lack of resilience, but young people have had a lot to contend with. The question is how best to support them.

I found his "Kids in Space" metaphor compelling. A child's body grown in space would be unadapted and vulnerable on planet Earth. Likewise, a child's mental state, grown now in the artificial space of social media, is similarly unadapted to real life.

Whatever we mean by that, of course, and that's worth pondering in this context. The presentation of scientific untruths as valid points of view, for example: what does that do to a developing person?