Women's rights general conversations - Thread 2

[Kucingsparkles]

Continuation of Thread 1

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Sean Ingles has always been sane on this. Maybe because he's a bloke writing in the sports section?

The sensible Nick Timothy article (I never, never NEVER expected to string those words together) reminded me of one of my steps away from being 'kind' aka blind. That thing in the Guardian a few years ago about the man who liked to wear designed-for-women lingerie. Okay, I thought, provided he isn't stealing from its owners. But then the bit about when he bought it, he had to tell the saleswoman it was for him, even though he could see that made him uncomfortable.

I hadn't heard the word for that then, but the outrage at a non-consenting woman being forced to gratify his sexual predilections really woke me up. Can anyone remember was there any criticism on the letters page after that? (I only bought the paper on Saturdays). Consent is (or was) regarded as foundational. But not be these people.

I remember that article and having a long, exhausting, dispiriting dispute with the Men of CIF about why it is wrong to force a non consenting person into your fetish - and using someone who is just trying to do their job in this way - is despicable.

Obviously, they pretended they didn't understand (just as they couldn't understand that a sleeping person can't consent to sex).

There's a lot of stuff that those nice chaps choose not to understand - which was why I was astounded that N T got it and expressed it so succinctly.

The Tory party's very quick close-down on Penny Mordaunt's leadership ambitions already made me think that there's a lack of tolerance for gender theory stuff and its very dodgy allies among some of the members, this adds to that. Weird (particularly since the dressing up and expecting wives to put up with it seems a very posh-bloke thing, having read about the Beaumont Society over the weekend). And scary that just when the country needs a left wing government, Labour is being so useless.

Just having a quick peruse of the mail whilst i had my tea.

I'm no longer feeling hungry. I was in the middle of eating a sausage, but I think the foxes can have it. It was only a little sausage mind.

Well, that threshold for predatory male is higher than most would set it, I imagine. They keep saying stuff that reveals the precise nature of the problem.

I'm having a massive problem looking at a man with a very visible penis being called vunerable and she.

How is he vulnerable? How is he a she?

That is a man

Ugh, I was just getting into that thread about Jude, the transman who goes into schools and talks to the children, then Mumsnet deleted it - so annoying!

Apparently it turned into a 'bun fight', I don't know why they couldn't just delete offending posts like they usually do.

Sorry, there was nowhere else to complain and I've been wanting to post here for a while (I used to lurk for years in the other place and was happy when you all came here 👋).

I know I'd just posted when it went to deleted thread heaven I was enjoying the idiot postings from the person from judes Instagram

And I was never in the other place so just gate crashed this thread! ( I still don't even know where the other place was. I'm clueless)

I decided to stop commenting on that thread when we were "reliably" informed that that there are 6 sexes .... sigh....I do hope that person was self identifying as a teacher and isn't a real one.

On a separate note, I often wander in and out of this thread and really enjoy it - even if I rarely post.

I did notice it went puff straight after me posting two posts in bigly letters screaming about only 2 SEXES.

This thread, and the one with the link to the Nick Timothy article - reading them with tears running down my face.

I know it's a long way from being over, but for the first time in ages feeling a little bit of optimism.

I think a lot of people have been saying very little for years. Partly because we didn't think it was a big deal and more recently, partly because there is the fear of being the victim of a pile-on and for some people a genuine fear of losing their job over this. I think this is beginning to change. Some aspects have gone so far as to be mind-bogglingly insane. There are things I can hardly believe are happening but they are. This is a very safe place to discuss things with like-minded people but also somewhere to get the courage to say similar things elsewhere.

After reading Trans by Helen Joyce I found her on Twitter and started following her/liking her posts. Through here I've found lots of other people/groups to follow and I now sometimes comment on their posts as well. I've ordered an Adult Human Female t-shirt and I'll wear it. I will carry on being kind and show respect to individuals. It is not individuals I have an issue with - except those who are dangerous, cosplaying, the whole "kink" thing, obviously - but the cult(ure) and the ideology being pushed by some very aggressive people who appear to me to be aggressive misogynists who take great pleasure in making adult human females feel unsafe.

Oh, and I stopped following Owen Jones who needs to have a serious word with himself. I expect to start losing some followers on Twitter but I'm not someone with thousands anyway and if I lose hundreds so be it. It's akin to racism. If you see it happening, know it's wrong and yet say nothing, then you are as much a part of the problem as any violent racist who is actively trying to hurt/destroy anyone who's not white. I've stood up to be counted for other people and been proud and happy to do so. It's time I stood up for myself and those in even more vulnerable situations than my own.

And breathe!

@Madamedefargelikescrows 🍷🍫

Did we have Hadley Freeman's latest piece from the weekend?

What gives men the right to use gender activism as a cover for misogyny?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/06f8a01a-9981-11ed-b166-62bd6c86c09d?shareToken=cc1a3da8542ff32ef19bba50ec4745f7

So that's the Times and the Telegraph giving space to the issue that must not be named? Are things starting to change direction, or is it the death rattle of women's rights?

Hadley off the leash!

@Madamedefargelikescrows

👏

Just had an e-mail about a deleted post of mine. God I love them so much... "hi there, it does look like you used the word arsehole".

😁

Anyway in a completely none related segway... I must get back to the IW thread. I've some unread posts to read, and maybe yet another deletion message on one of my posts.

I've been reading the "What are they saying in UK schools" thread. One poster writes:

My friend's daughter (Year 9 I think) was recently given an assignment by her French teacher in which she had to write an essay that began with the phrase "I find JKR's views on feminism troubling because..."

In her answer, the girl argued the other side of the argument and in the conversation that resulted with her French teacher, the teacher told her student that the reason she had gone into teaching was so that she could educate kids about gender identity. She's a French teacher.

Its not good, is it?

No, that is not good. Not good at all.

Bloody hell, that's doubleplus ungood.

WTF. I find them troubling because they’re not being taken more seriously.

Goodness me. The Year 9s in that school must be incredibly advanced if they can conduct that kind of discussion in a French essay😁