Radio 4 today 23/12/22

[WarriorN]

Currently a big piece on Scotland and the GRA reform. Someone from trans actual on.

Justin being excellent

Helen Belcher is either woefully misinformed or lying through their teeth.

there is no evidence from the many other jurisdictions that use self declaration of gender and Spain seems to have moved down that line as well yesterday, of any abuse which is being described.

Well, that's not true, is it? How about Barbie Kardashian for starters? BK proves that either some predatory males will abuse the law or some 'real transwomen' are dangerous predators.

the number of trans women in women’s prisons was now in single figures,so and the one case that was being quoted was where the prison service said that it had not followed the new guidelines properly.

One dangerous male in a women's prison can affect every single woman in there. But I wouldn't expect a male like HB to understand that.

…but we don’t restrict rights on the basis of a few people.

But we do. That's why we have things like DBS checks. Only a few people are predators/rapists/paedophiles etc., but we check everyone, just so that we don't put a paedophile in charge of a primary school.

And there are situations like prisons where the acquisition of a Gender Recognition Certificate makes no difference.

This isn't true, either. See this document, posted many times on here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863610/transgender-pf.pdf

"...all individuals who are transgender must be initially allocated to part of the
estate which matches their legally recognised gender"

I think the males in Limerick's women's prison are predominantly (if not exclusively) sex offenders of one type or another. So predatory males to a wo man.

So, if HK thinks women of a certain age should shut up, does that include her? Or, is it ok if older women are being a sergeant at arms for men like her . What about the men of a certain age who have a proclivity to don a woman's mantle? Why does heaven and earth (along with safety, opportunity, fairness and dignity for women and girls) have to be moved for them, and they don't have to shut up?

For those new to this, Belcher is the founder of trans media watch and hugely influential in the Lib Dem’s

💐@JoodyBlue You are an absolute star! Thank you so much. I'd got most of it typed up before it refreshed, grrrr. Thank you for sparing me having to listen to that woman's drivel again.

I can't believe HK was one of my inspirations to enter the legal profession. Now she's using agist arguments against older GC women, is an apologist for male violence (there's a massive chance that any trans woman convict will have violence against women in their repertoire of crimes), and is wilfully sticking her head in the sand to avoid the realities of TRA males and their continued violence and threats of violence towards women. And where to start with all the minority women, all the abused women, all the vulnerable women that she's just happy to throw under the bus to appease her TRA friends? She's so disappointing, and this will be the legacy she leaves behind.

Ignoring the exceptionally self interested Belcher, the problem for influential women like Kennedy is that from the outset they've offered unconditional approval and helped create the myth that this group are the most marginalised in the world ever. They've wined and dined with the Belchers of the world giving them an apparent level of credibility.

So they've got a lot invested in minimising the sheer number of predators who use being trans as an excuse. Minimising the levels of social contagion in teenage girls and children believing they've been born in the wrong body. Minimising the emerging numbers of detranstioners. Because if this is spoken out loud, then influential women like Kennedy become complicit in enabling an ideology that harms children, especially girls, and women. And they'll fight hard to maintain their reputation over the safety of children and women.

Helena Kennedy doesn't seem to know what she's talking about.

it is really only about trying to make it less oppressive for trans people because the system at the moment to get a Gender Recognition Certificate is a really humiliating and degrading one and lasts a very long time and so what they are seeking was something that was much more straightforward where it wasn’t going to involve invasive medical processes and…

There are no invasive medical processes involved. All that is required are reports from two doctors saying that the person suffers from gender dysphoria. Plus evidence of 'living in the acquired gender', which is just documents (like driving licence and utility bills) showing the new name and title.

Why is getting a medical diagnosis and changing name and title on official documents seen as humiliating and degrading?

@MoirasSaggyBundles 😄most welcome friend

I've just sent some feedback to the BBC about the interviews on the GRR with Justin Webb this morning. It's easy to do and the best way of getting your points over to the editorial team as they apparently do look at them all. Try to do it quickly. Just search on BBC feedback or BBC complaints (you can say its feedback not a complaint)

Justin did a good job especially asking what 'living in a gender' is - the million dollar question that no one will answer and is not defined in the bill yet its a criminal offence in the bill to make a false declaration of 'living in your acquired gender' (whatever that is)

The Helen Belcher daftness of 'women attack each other too!' - yes - but very rarely compared to the numbers of men that attack women. And frankly the minimum I expect when taking my clothes off in a public changing room is that I won't be sexually assaulted - privacy and dignity are important too. 'We don't exclude whole groups of people because of a few bad actors' - yes we do, it's the whole basis of safeguarding.

Helena Kennedy - tried to dodge the abusive men taking advantage question by saying that women suffer abuse from men in many ways. Yes - its the old 'women will always be raped so why bother making it harder argument'. There was an unpleasant ageist comment about the 'age profile' of supporters/against completely ignoring the many young people who are against this bill and totally offensive to older women who have spent years fighting for their rights, LGB rights etc.

Yes the EqA does allow for the exclusion of trans people from single sex services but you are not allowed to see a GRC and the guidance advises not to judge on appearances and a GRC holder has a birth certificate saying they are female. It begs the question how ARE you meant to judge? Lady Haldanes judgement has muddied the waters even further by making providers uncertain as to what 'sex' even means. It's a dogs dinner that the government needs to sort and fast.

I would like to ask HK the following question, because she has argued here that her support for making a GRC easier to obtain is partly on the basis of having represented trans women who have been raped and humiliated at work and who are oppressed.

Have you ever also represented any non-trans women who have been raped and humiliated at work and suffered oppression due to their presentation? I imagine they are legion. What is the difference and how does this relate to your argument supporting this legislation?

I wonder if she reads mumsnet.

Also:
They are very small in number and what’s very interesting is the rape crisis centre in Scotland and the women who are running refuges etc in Scotland by and large amongst those women the response is that they want to see this legislation go through because they want to end discrimination, they want to see trans people treated in a way that’s fair and just.

Do you know the CEO is a transwoman?

the protection of women is one of the most important issues of our time and women and girls are at risk but not by and large at risk from trans women, but from predatory men

Given that the time requirement is reduced, the medical requirement is no longer necessary, and no-one knows what "living in acquired gender" means, what is the difference in your view between any old predatory man and an exemplary applicant who just wants to live their life. How do you know which category of person you are dealing with?

Finally, do you know what AGP is?

Just in case HK happens to be scrolling through with a cuppa.

Finally, yes at what age does one's opinion cease to be relevant? I do believe I am younger than HK, so does my opinion carry more clout? By her argument it should .

@MrsOvertonsWindow I agree with your post. But the implications are really chilling.

I would estimate that the risk of having some women disengage from services that are supposed to be women only when a trans woman is present will be 100%

Many women will do just that. I am menopausal and really struggling with it. I'd love to join a support group but don't feel that they are safe spaces due to the increasing chance that men will use them for their own amusement or validation. I don't feel there are any protected spaces for me anymore and as a sexual assault victim, it's terrifying to know that. The MRAs can try and dress this up however, they want, but most people can see this for the removal of women's rights and protections that it is. I am due to have an operation soon. It will leave me immobile for a couple of days and very vulnerable. My biggest fear is being on a ward with a male because any male who puts himself on a female ward is showing himself to be a man who does not respect women's boundaries.

Another one here who is so disappointed in Helena Kennedy - I used to admire her and now she has betrayed us.

So what happens when trans men end up in prison? It’s like some horrible social experiment. Presumably most will have taken enough hormones to not get pregnant but so many questions.

Is HK thick, on glue or have MRAs taken her cat hostage?

Reading the transcript above I was embarrassed for her, it reads like she has sold her soul and hence can’t argue articulately for the side she is on.

Yes thanks again to transcribers, as reading what she said spelt out that she places males above women.