Surely their victimhood narrative causes more harm?

[ZombieMumEB]

This appeared on my twitter.

JKR isn't putting people in danger, however this person's post is - they are brainwashing trans people into thinking others want them dead.

Why aren't these TRAs being called out more for gaslighting trans people?

Not only do they brainwash trans people into thinking other people want them dead, they repeatedly use dodgy stats to support their claim.

I think it's younger people or vulnerable adults who are most susceptible to be persuaded by this claim and in any other situation people would recognise this narrative as abusive, because it is.

Whats worse is our politicians, who have researchers etc, and should know better also willingly participate in this abuse and some how manage to convince themselves they're on the right side of history.

Strange. There are death threats in this debate, but I’ve never seen them issued by GC people. Seen plenty of TRA’s issuing death threats online and IRL though.
As you point out OP, just another example of how TRA’s are really not interested at all in supporting transpeople, only in removing women’s rights

Here's that person on Twitter playing with knives: twitter.com/sophie_frm_mars/status/1599353398121615361

Every accusation is a confession.

There are some seriously mentally unwell people caught up in this ideology. It is the worst part of the whole thing. I absolutely ❤️ JKR and desperately to give him his credit Jordan Peterson who although is no fan to feminism in general has been absolutely stalwart on gender ideology.

It’s a standard response to any pushback against the insistence of trans ‘rights’.

• men shouldn’t compete in women’s sports = you want all trans people to die
• men shouldn’t be in women’s prisons = you want all trans people to die
• chikdren shouldn’t be given drugs and surgery that cause irreversible harm = you want all trans people to die

It's a larger problem, really, and it's almost always unhealthy. Young people seem desperate to pick up all kinds of victim statuses. And it affects their mental health.

Yes and that's why it's encouraged by TRAs. The entire narrative relies on the 'trans child' and suicide ideation is part of it.

I posted it yesterday but got no reply. Can someone please help me understand who is behind this nonsense trans movement and why? Who is manipulating these people? Who is behind stonewall and what do they want? I can make sense of anything and the more I read on the subject the more questions I have.

You wouldn’t have got replies because your question requires a book to answer. There is no quick answer.

i recommend reading Trans by Helen Joyce for the history.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?latest=0

This thread has more information and the later part of the thread has links to studies, articles and significant posts that can help fill in how things have evolved recently.

I would google Foucault and gender theory, and then Denton’s Report (add the word trans probably) to see a document detailing long term progression strategies that have been followed.

Sorry. There is just no easy answer and there are threads and threads of similar questions asked that you could probably find.

Have you read this one zombie?

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-022-02472-8

It has a section on the suicide narrative too.

Gender-Affirming Treatment of Gender Dysphoria in Youth: A Perfect Storm Environment for the Placebo Effect—The Implications for Research and Clinical Practice

Alison Clayton. 14 November 2022

It helps to keep in mind that trans isn't one thing. The way I see it is there are 3 main groups, people who developed trans identities as children, this looks to be a tiny proportion, young people who develop identity problems around the time they're growing up, and particularly around puberty, and people, the vast proportion being men, who develop a trans identities as adults.

My very short version is that there is no Masterplan. Culture and society is undergoing many disruptions and there are lots of people out there looking to obtain control over others who see ways to exploit these disruptions, and it just turns out that using certain forms of identity politics is very effective in controlling others, with the use of trans identities as being incredibly effective.

None of that explains "Why". Just the variety of "Whos".

I am, probably mistakenly, reading here at the same time as watching Ep2 of seried 3 of Pullman.

How Pullman takes the position in RL he does is a mystery.

The Magisterium seeks to take people's souls to enable complete obedience.

What, and where is the magisterium here that would take women's souls?

And who's next?

I really shouldn't conflate two things just because they are happening at the same time.

Even "what trans is" has at least two main groups who, when you look at it, contradict each other.
1- people who very strongly wish to be the opposite sex. They may or may not have a "gender identity" but they believe that women have female bodies and men have male bodies, so in order to be seen as the opposite sex, change their appearance or body to facilitate this. They would probably have diagnosed "gender dysphoria".

2- people who believe any gender can be "inside" any body, so women can have male bodies and vice versa. Gender isn't necessarily related to appearance - in fact it's not clear what it IS related to - dated stereotypes are often cited. They don't believe any physical change is required to live as any gender (although like nearly all Western people they probably experiment with dress, etc). Yet it is still of utmost importance that society and law organise themselves around gender divisions, and never by sex.

There are various subgroups - Reddit has a lot of them which often seem to be in opposition.

The "Trans" book is a good crash course!

I see the oppression identifying as such a young person thing. This is a demographic that thrives on melodrama and my generation in the 90s was no different.

However, we all tended to grow up, it's turning into arrested development with all the silly activism and adults that should really know better.

Yes and that's why it's encouraged by TRAs. The entire narrative relies on the 'trans child' and suicide ideation is part of it.

Yes - it's not a bug, it's a feature. I can't think of any civil rights movement that emphasises the vulnerability of the group being campaigned for. Gay rights, Black civil rights, feminism - all those campaigns emphasised the strength and determination of those particular groups. Imagine if Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech had been about Black people killing themselves if they didn't get equal civil rights.

So they do it deliberately. It's intended as blackmail. "Give us what we want or we'll kill ourselves." The remarkable thing is that it seems to work.

The "Trans" book is a good crash course!

It is the basis for focusing the questions. Because there are so many questions!

Have just been thinking similar reading a thread from someone who poked the bear and is now crying that JKR called them out. Didn't she know how much danger she's putting trans people in when she responds to them, yada yada.

When JKR does something like this it's usually to dismiss someone with nuance and humour, but they take her completely seriously. She made some sarcastic remark about how people should not just burn all her work but give back their owls, and the replies are quite seriously raging that JKR thinks she owns all the owls now.

It's like taking candy from a baby. The drama and the ignorance is off the scale. There's no intellectual capacity there at all.

I don't really know why they are telling people they are more vulnerable than they are, it doesn't indicate having their best interests at heart.

I live in a "progressive" area, identities are everywhere in the schools, two local characters are men in their 60s walking about in woman's underwear, nobody gets attacked. Still there is a cafe that sells itself as a safe space, windows full of posters about how vulnerable trans people are because... Brazil? How is that helping these kids?

The wanting them dead logic jump is also really weird. I have and know many people with chronic illnesses, for example, universally thrilled when there's a breakthrough in research that might help prevent more people suffering like they do - not once has one of them claimed that trying to prevent epilepsy means that they want epileptics to die, it's just mad.

All it sounds like to me is

“no one else will look after you like I will”
”your family and friends don’t care about you- they want to harm you”
”no one loves you as much as I do”

and we all know where that leads.

We do indeed @ApocalipstickNow the mystery is why so many purportedly intelligent, educated, worldly adults point blank refuse to see it. When the inevitable happens and this implodes the damage caused by all this has to, and will be, laid firmly at the feet of every single one of those enabling it.

Reminds me of that Jeffrey Marsh rainbow family clip.

Sorry, maybe it was glitter family. I am not going to check.

Spot on OP. This dramatisation and distortion conjures threats from nuanced debate so it becomes impossible to have a discussion. This needs to stop - the people it harms most are the very kids these TRAs say they support (though I suspect that bit is a feature rather than a bug, to keep them in the cult)