pronoun advice

[ginslinger]

I am part of a mentoring programme for university undergraduates. I am doing this in a voluntary capacity and the person who is running the programme is someone I am loosely friendly with, we have lots of mutuals. This year I have lost 2 friends because of my gender critical stance and I am tired and disappointed with much of it.
I have had some guidance about the mentoring programme and introducing my self to my mentee; part of this guidance is that we should share pronouns. I have written to my mentee and told her my name and some details about myself but have ignored the issue of pronouns. If this pronoun thing gets pushed is there a way that I can say that I don't want to do this without having a huge transphobic label stuck to me and lose even more of my network? I have some memory that making people declare their pronouns puts them in a shaky position if they don't want to do this and I was wondering if I could fall back on this - I know it's a bit of a weasely way out but I'm honestly fed up to the back teeth. I don't know how those of you who work in education cope with this

‘I don’t try to dictate how other people talk about me because that’s weird.’

Quote Principle 6 from the Yogyakarta Principles, The Right to Privacy, at them.

f) Ensure the right of all persons ordinarily to choose when, to whom and how to disclose information pertaining to their sexual orientation or gender identity, and protect all persons from arbitrary or unwanted disclosure, or threat of disclosure of such information by others.

The Yogyakarta Principles is a sort of trans manifesto, expressing what a small group of trans-identified people want the governments of all countries to enshrine in their laws. It has absolutely no legal validity, but is the source document for trans-inclusivity.

I would say don't quote Yogykarta principles because it gives legitimacy to the entitled ramblings of a self-selected group of Men's Rights Activists.
Contact sex-matters.org/ - I think they have a guide.

My inclination would be a firm no and, if they persist in demanding you do the pronouns thing, tell them to stop trying to compel your speech and thought - you have more important things to focus on, like your actual mentoring.

Forgot to add, you may indeed lose people from your network, but equally you may find you are not the only one who thinks as you do. And if people drop you, it just means they would have dropped you at some point anyway.

This may not be all that helpful but I'm In A Mood today.

She doesn't want to out herself as GC.

I don't think any of this pronoun-wankery has legitimacy, so I don't think that quoting the neo-religion's bible back at them gives it any more legitimacy. And if it gives the other person pause for thought, maybe they will also see the wankery for what it is.

I have seen several threads similar to this one around lately. I do not mean to be rude but I don't understand the hesitancy of telling someone your preferred pronouns? If you identify as female, why don't you want to make that clear?

I am female , I don’t identify

Because many women don't "identify as female". They are just of the female sex.

I don't identify as female, I am female. Frankly if someone did make a mistake a thought that I was male then I'd explain that I wasn't. Although you would have to be pretty obtuse. I use indicators such as a sex-specific title in front of my name to show that I'm a woman.

Thanks everyone - there's some interesting things to think about there. Hopefully I've squashed it for now. I do worry about the state of universities these days.

Because I don't identify as a woman I am a woman

Because I think Gender Ideology is ludicrous, science free, fluffy thinking

Because no matter the source forced speech, anti scientific blather is something to be refuted, not embraced.

Because the upshot of Gender Ideology is inherently dangerous to women's rights and women as individuals

And not forgetting, pronouns are only ever used in my absence. Why the hell would I want to force people to use words that do not identify me? That only cause anxiety, are forced, untrue, utter bollocks?

And it isn't only lately. If you have a look you'll find a few years worth of discussion about gender ideology and preferred pronouns.

I've been thinking about this recently as it's bound to come up at some point.

I think my response will. be, "While I appreciate that all people have to be respected I don't believe that all ideas do. ". If asked to elaborate I would express my concerns for the company requiring all staff to do this in terms of the equality act.

I also bridle at the implication in your post that abandoning millennia of accepted English grammar usage to stroke the egos of a tiny minority of people is just oh-so-normal and not an imposition in any way. No.

'Pronouns - I don't care what you call me'.

@JellySaurus
I know why you suggested that course of action. I am saying that any reference to the YP, or any use of the language of TRAs/MRAs, even if we think we are being sarcastic or turning the tables in some way, pulls the words or concepts involved further into the mainstream, legitimises them and warps our understanding of reality. We end up training our brains to accept them. That's why the TRAs are so authoritarian about language - it can change the way we think.

@ginslinger
Good luck, however you decide to play it!

I don’t need to make it clear, personally. One look and you would know , one phone call and my voice would ‘identify’ me. The people who need to identify, and to have other people validate them …..they can go around declaring (although frankly it’s unnecessary in most cases)

Two reasons:
1). I don't have preferred pronouns. I really don't give a shiny crap how you refer to me in the 3rd person as I am generally not present.
2). I don't identify as female. My sex is female and I think gender is a tool of oppression used by the patriarchy to the detriment of everyone, but particularly females.

OP - what is your mentee studying? In my experience (academic) gender ideology is mainly a thing in the humanities in our university. I am actually shocked and horrified hearing stories from colleagues in humanities. Colleagues in the more practical business (e.g. accountancy and information systems) and science (e.g. physics and chemistry oriented) areas, engineering and medicine have no issues. There is a bit but not as bad as humanities in less practical business and science subjects. Law is also a bit of a mixed bag. Health care (e.g. nursing, OT etc) is also a bit of a mixed bag.

Forgive my scepticism that you genuinely don't understand but explaining the problems with thinking you have your own 'personal pronouns' is a very large proportion of the content of FWR.

Read any 3 threads and I'm sure you'll find it explained in detail.

Briefly: it's like telling an atheist they must start a conversation with their favourite version of the Lord's Prayer and then being annoyed they refuse.

Sorry, above post is in reply to this.

I am called Alice and when speaking to me the pronouns we use are I, me or you.
🙂

I see the misogynistic monitors are out in force.

For anyone wondering about my deletions, I used a word which is a perfectly accurate descriptor of gender ideology. The misogynistic monitors know it and we know it. It's so accurate that it's a bit of a touchy subject with them.

I won't be cowed into using for others or being forced to refer to myself through compelled speech.

I've lost patience now. My answer is no.