Cambridge dictionary drops new definition of the word ‘woman’

[Coconutmeg]

It’s quite long to get in a t -shirt though.

Many people, probably most, refer to trans women as women

Sorry, love, but no. They really don't.

@DadJoke ... 'They are compiled by analysing a large corpus of English texts (over 2 billion words in total) taken from all areas of writing and publishing, which allows us to see exactly how language is used. We regularly update our dictionary to reflect changes in how English is used, based on analysis of data from this corpus."

The problem with the current situation around the use of the word woman is that many written sources are being forced, by what we believe to be a small but powerful minority, to erase the word woman when it is used to mean adult human female. Writers are 'encouraged' be 'inclusive' and their works are edited, gender critical writers lose their contracts, health organisations are encouraged to use different words, print articles are censored.

The evidence on which they are basing this change is under immense pressure. Even articles that were searchable a few months ago, are no longer available on line.

Excellent.

We know anyway that DadJoke thinks beans will car on the abstract dust under, don't we? Which is a right-wing dog-whistle.

Can we please stick with the usual definition of 'drop' as in to omit or leave out, rather than using the newly minted Netflix definition which seems to mean release, bring out?

Judging by the use of English in the definition, Universities are waiving through students who are not achieving the standards degrees used to demand.

That's spot on

I've never met anyone who does, those of my friends who are twaw refer to their transwoman daughter or friend as transwomen

And in general conversation at the hairdressers for example they referred to the transwoman delivery driver as he/him all the way.

It is true that I don't think 'most' people call a male a woman. However, if we wanted to get specific, it 'might' be 'most' of the people that dadjoke interacts with.

But it is an error to try to assert that niche selection to the entire UK population. And even more so, to the world's population.

So, perhaps dadjoke is just aiming for saying it enough times that they might convince someone who is already using the word for any male who claims it that 'most' are doing it, so that someone is comforted in thinking everyone else in doing it. When it is not true.

Not sure how many polls of the UK population it will take though for posters to stop posting that fuckwittery falsehood.

Iit doesn't matter whether most or just a significant minority use this new defintion, the usage has been measured and noted by lexicographers, and it's sufficiently prevelant in the data that the new definition has been added. I am unsure why "how dictionaries work" is remotely contraversial.

I don't like certain changes of usage (less"to mean fewer for example), but that doesn't mean the dictionary is "wrong." It's like blaming the thermometer for the temperature.

I can't fathom how this can be simplistically compared to "lesser" and "fewer".

None of this is particularly new. It's been implicit in the defintion of woman for a while, based on the definition of trans woman.

Mirriam-Webster: a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

Collins: a transgender or transsexual woman

Trans woman is fine. Nobody is arguing against that. Trans is key here.

It's a simple analogy. Just because you don't like how a word is used, doesn't mean the word isn't used that way - the dictionary doesn't care. It's simply how many people use the word.

I don't doubt for a moment that your dislike of this definition of woman is a thousand times greater than mine for less and fewer, but that's not the point I was making.

I have much less of a problem with this then I do the expression ‘cervix haver’ if I had cancer and someone called me that I think I’d lose my shit.

"A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site.

@DadJoke simplistic yes. Also disingenuous.

*"A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site.*

Hence I always use transwoman, a noun, completely separate from the definition of women. I can recommend all women to do that. Just drop the space, spaces aren't important anyway...

Surely transwo man is more accurate if you want two words? I would imagine one new whole word would sit more comfortably with those who are trans.

"*A trans woman is a woman who..."

By this definition, trans women are subset of women. I am glad you have no issue with that. It's quite refreshing on this site*

Unfortunately it's not refreshing to have words put in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort. Trans women are a subset of men.

Whatever ones views on lexicography, if the word woman is to have a second, newer meaning which is not compatible with the first, and given that the word Woman has been used to define specific rights and protections that predate the new meaning, I'm sure everyone, whatever meaning they may personally prefer, would agree it's appropriate to revisit those rights and protections to make it clear the group who is entitled to use them is the group defined by the original meaning of the word.

After all, no one would think it ok to destroy the protections and rights of a marginalised group simply due to a change in language, surely?

Everyone, even those pretending not to, know precisely what a woman is - and it isn't a man. Which is why we have those two different, sex-based, words. FFS!

Trans woman is fine. Nobody is arguing against that.

It's not fine, and many on this board reject it - for precisely the reason DadJoke demonstrated, because it's a weaselly attempt to pretend transwomen are a subset of women. They are not.

So a woman is either an adult human female or

an adult human male who identifies as an adult human female.

okay.

Yes, useful to have a definition that says nothing. Might as well use "human" if you want to include both sexes.

Most people have an issue here. Transwoman is a subset of man not woman, because transwomen are men.