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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cambridge dictionary drops new definition of the word ‘woman’

220 replies

Coconutmeg · 13/12/2022 06:56

It’s quite long to get in a t -shirt though.

Cambridge dictionary drops new definition of the word ‘woman’
OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2022 11:07

A definition got added though, an additional definition. The adult human female one is still there. Nobody removed anything.

You are missing the point.

A definition was changed.

minimarshmallowsmore · 13/12/2022 11:11

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2022 11:07

A definition got added though, an additional definition. The adult human female one is still there. Nobody removed anything.

You are missing the point.

A definition was changed.

Was the original definition changed? I thought an extra one was just added.

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 11:11

hallouminatus · 13/12/2022 07:24

Is there a new definition of "drop"?

Apparently so! I initially thought that Cambridge University Press had seen sense, but it seems dictionary definitions now "drop" like a new track from Taylor Swift.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2022 11:12

Was the original definition changed? I thought an extra one was just added.

I'll just briefly say that an addition constitutes a change.

Then I'll step back because you are being deliberately obtuse.

JaneJeffer · 13/12/2022 11:12

Is that real? Confused

MsFogi · 13/12/2022 11:16

Did they give the definition of 'man' the same treatment?

minimarshmallowsmore · 13/12/2022 11:17

MsFogi · 13/12/2022 11:16

Did they give the definition of 'man' the same treatment?

Yes it's the same

DevilinaCardigan · 13/12/2022 11:18

So woman means adult human female or a feeling in a man’s head. Well I can’t see that causing any problems or confusion.

Im going to start calling all four legged furry animals ‘cats’. That shouldn’t be an issue… unless I’m a vet.

DevilinaCardigan · 13/12/2022 11:19

Or run a cat cafe.

minimarshmallowsmore · 13/12/2022 11:21

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2022 11:12

Was the original definition changed? I thought an extra one was just added.

I'll just briefly say that an addition constitutes a change.

Then I'll step back because you are being deliberately obtuse.

Interesting, I had never thought before about whether everything in the section under a word in the dictionary counts as a definition or whether each individual item under the word counts as a definition. Riveting debate this.
In any case adult female human is still listed, and listed first. People use it that way primarily. And there is another way that many people also use that word, on occasions, so it is now also there. You may use the word however you wish and other people may also use the word however they wish.

howmanybicycles · 13/12/2022 11:22

minimarshmallowsmore · 13/12/2022 09:29

If it was really only a tiny minority this forum would have nothing to rail against.

Of course they would. That tiny minority include a number of societies most privileged - males. These privileged people are causing untold harm to adult human actual females. That does not make their attempts to change language any more mainstream and it does not mean that people formerly known as women identify as women.

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 11:53

DevilinaCardigan · 13/12/2022 11:19

Or run a cat cafe.

Or a specialist book shop: whyevolutionistrue.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Merilee-2.jpg

CountZacular · 13/12/2022 11:56

I understand the idea of adding current usage to dictionaries, but in this situation it's rendered the word 'woman' completely meaningless. Woman is an adult, female human or a man who 'identifies' as a woman. So a 'woman' is just a human then?

To further muddy the water, there's this definition of 'female':
'Belonging or relating to women'. An example used: "She was the school's first trans female athlete".*

This is rather clumsy (though I imagine deliberate) as it refers it back to the definition of woman - which includes men. So female now always means 'man' if one should wish.

*Side note, but why would they use 'trans female', a term that practically nobody except a very tiny minority use unless they were trying to make some kind of point?

Cambridge dictionary drops new definition of the word ‘woman’
Blenheimprincess · 13/12/2022 11:57

Wtfkingfuck?
Are Sex Matters on this? I do hope so. Who makes the decisions here? And how did they get captured?

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 11:58

Someone fondly imagines if you successfully control the dictionary you've controlled reality.

You haven't. You've just fucked up the dictionary.

Thecrackineverything · 13/12/2022 12:21

I think Orwell has something to say about this.

Lockheart · 13/12/2022 12:30

I'm just getting the definition "an adult female human being"... Which is correct surely?

DevilinaCardigan · 13/12/2022 13:00

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 11:53

🎶how much is that doggie in the window🎶

When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

LaughingPriest · 13/12/2022 13:09

And the glaringly obvious issue with this is...
if 'woman' can be 'male living as a female'....
and (trans) men are 'female' ... then male people living as men (female ones) can be women, and female people living as women (male ones) can be men.

howmanybicycles · 13/12/2022 13:17

minimarshmallowsmore · 13/12/2022 09:49

I'm just saying, there are a lot of people who use the word "woman" when talking about a trans woman. It's not a tiny insignificant minority is it. That usage therefore needs to be included in the dictionary as one possible usage, along with the adult human female definition that is listed first. If it's SO few people that it's not worth even including their usage of words in the dictionary, how can you think they have so much influence?

Most people use the term trans women. Some people have always used words wrongly. The dictionary does not usually change definitions to match such errors in usage.

Magentax · 13/12/2022 13:22

howmanybicycles · 13/12/2022 13:17

Most people use the term trans women. Some people have always used words wrongly. The dictionary does not usually change definitions to match such errors in usage.

Dictionaries do change definitions to match errors in usage. See, for example, -

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/literally

nilsmousehammer · 13/12/2022 13:34

One religion has no business enforcing its linguistic games on everyone else.

TW are TW. They are not women. And the time for playing those games and claiming it's harmless are long over. Today's verdict demonstrated that.

TheBiologyStupid · 13/12/2022 13:47

DevilinaCardigan · 13/12/2022 13:00

🎶how much is that doggie in the window🎶

When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

Clearly the approach just taken today in the Scottish Court of Session about the definition of "sex".

howmanybicycles · 13/12/2022 13:47

Magentax · 13/12/2022 13:22

Dictionaries do change definitions to match errors in usage. See, for example, -

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/literally

That's hardly comparable to using a word to mean the exact opposite whilst also trying to keep the original meaning. Their current definition actually makes the word mean nothing at all other than a person.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/12/2022 14:17

That's hardly comparable to using a word to mean the exact opposite whilst also trying to keep the original meaning. Their current definition actually makes the word mean nothing at all other than a person.

Unfortunately in some definitions it literally is ... see definition 2 here.Hmm

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

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