Let's try mixed-sex ice hockey!

[NecessaryScene]

It looks like some genius in the NHL decided it would be a good idea to do some mixed-sex ice hockey, as an "All-Trans Draft Tournament". Jon Kay reports here:

quillette.com/2022/12/09/ignoring-biological-reality-puts-female-hockey-players-at-risk/

This happened in mid-November, but they appear to have avoided publicising the event. It wasn't pretty.

Aside from a tweet containing four photos of the November 19th–20th event, the NHL provided no substantive information about how the tournament unfolded. Nor did media outlets such as Hockey News, whose reporting consisted instead of cheery tournament summaries (“The arena was just buzzing with trans joy for two solid days”) sourced to the organizers’ social media accounts.

Vice sent a five-person film crew to cover the tournament, including two cameramen, but so far hasn’t reported anything on what that unit filmed. So as far as I know, in fact, I’m the first person to publicly report the events described below.

[...]

A single team, Pink, ended up stacked with physically imposing biological men (i.e., trans women). And by no coincidence, that team also went on to become tournament champion.

This awkward outcome may help explain why no one involved with the tournament seemed anxious to publicize event details once things were over. Team Pink’s victory over Black in the finals—which I was able to watch on video, along with all the other games—was an embarrassing 7–1 rout. According to one rink-side source who attended the tournament, Team Pink players even called a meeting during the second period in order to discuss whether it would be best to end the game prematurely. [...] Team Pink’s she/hers were evidently instructed to stop running up the score, with #29 being relegated to defensive duty.

[...]

“I don’t know how the teams were made,” that aforementioned rink-side source told me. “But any [fan] could see that this couldn’t possibly be fair, and that someone could get hurt—and someone did.”

That someone was Team Black player #91, a self-described FTM (female-to-male transgender) player who was pushed to the ice by a much larger she/her member of Team Pink—#90, who self-describes publicly as “a bisexual trans woman”—with three minutes left in the first period. The contact doesn’t look particularly serious when you watch it on video. It may even have been entirely accidental. But the size imbalance between the two skaters was so great that the Team Black player ended up being propelled head first into the boards with enough force to deliver a concussion.

As the Vice crew continued to film, players clustered around the seemingly knocked-out #91. Shortly thereafter, a panicky voice booms out from amid the scrum, “Get a stretcher! Get a medic!” And the audience, which had formerly been burbling enthusiastically in response to the arena announcer’s trans-positive patter, fell silent. It would take more than 17 minutes for the head-injured player to be placed on a stretcher and wheeled off the ice. When the game eventually re-started, a subdued mood persisted till the final buzzer.

A video of that incident is at the linked piece, as if we needed another nasty M-v-F sports injury video.

For fuck's sake.

I believe that most of the TW hate ‘ cis’ women, and would like nothing better than a legitimate opportunity to give them a whack. At least, that’s what they say on SM.

Isn't that exactly what "equal but not the same" means?

Intellectually in office jobs it makes no difference but our bodies are the result of 100s of 1000s of years of evolution that were designed to make us specialized for 2 completely different functions.

Yes, I think we're saying the same thing. I was just a bit surprised that you said you only finally grasped this watching your sons grow up. I had a brother so maybe the lightbulb moment was earlier for me.

Real mixed-sex sport is kind of the polar opposite to this - they're run by people who know what sex is and that sex matters, and they set up the rules accordingly, paying attention to players' sex.

I talked about this with Canuck MrG, who used to coach schoolboys' hockey (aged about 11-13 - the boys that is, not him!) back in the 70s and has the trophy to prove it. So, what if some parent had asked if their daughter could train with them? No way - too dangerous, and not because of size/strength at that age. There was also a girls' team coached by another man, who he is absolutely certain would have refused to have a boy train with them. So if it wasn't size/strength, what was it?

Well, he said, even at that age there's an expectation that girls don't hit boys whereas on the ice, boys have a licence to hit anyone.

It's insane. That poor woman. NHL should be sued.

It's crazy.

The Canadian women's Olympic hockey team regularly plays boy's high school teams to practice - and they regularly lose.

Everyone knows these two groups are not equal.

And while everyone is right about fairness and risk, the other aspect of this which I think is important is that it wouldn't be very fun. It's just not fun to play when the teams are so unbalanced.

What puzzles* me is why the Righteous haven't ensured this Showcase of Righteous Sport isn't being publicised all over mainstream media.

We keep being told that it's only half-a-dozen nearly-dead old hags on MN sockpuppeting the entirety of the GC movement, and that all the rest of society (1) can't detect human sex (2) which is a spectrum anyway (3) and also gender overrides sex (4) therefore are fully supportive of everything being mixed sex.

So why wouldn't the Righteous push for this joyous triumph to be beamed out to the 8 billion -6 population, to rapturous applause?

*doesn't

I think this highlights how single sex sport is important at an amateur / community level, not just for the Olympics.

Ordinary bods playing sport have greater size/strength disparities, are less precise in their movements, are less agile, less physically fit, have less spatial awareness and more likely to collide and fall dangerously. Safety is just as important in these settings as for professionals.

If you can't 'live your truth' without mowing down and injuring women, you really need to start questioning your 'truth' a bit. Because it's FUBAR.

Yes, the whole 'living your truth' thing needs some qualification, I feel.

Crowley's maxim was not bad, but people often leave off the important bit:

'So long as it harms none - do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law'

Everyone gloms onto 'do as thou wilt' and forgets the 'harms none'.

I just can't believe the stupidity on display. Honestly, how do these people manage to hold jobs, drive a car or shop for groceries? What did they think would happen?!?

What did they think would happen?!?

"Trans joy"?

They seem to think in abstract terms rather than actual material physical outcomes.

Its the two things of

Feelings create reality, not facts (that well known characteristic of dysfunctional and unhealthy thinking treated by therapists)

and

male pleasure and satisfaction is absolutely worth the collateral damage of a female body count in their wake.

Why aren't those news outlets reporting on this important moment for trans people? I can only assume NHL, Vice etc are actually transphobic?

I sometimes understand when well meaning "be kind" people think inclusion of all kinds in sport is nothing more than helping all kids join in on the fun. That letting the occasional transgirls play on a girls' team is no big deal - "it's not the Olympics"

These people almost always have limited to zero sports knowledge, no experience playing mixed teams (any woman who's scrimmaged football/soccer against a man is well aware the physical differences), no concept of competition, and have never been to sport training that explains various health issues from concussion risks unique to women, upper body moves taught differently to women vs men, etc.

This instance is so mind boggling - hockey isn't the easiest sport to learn and it takes time to practice not just how to skate on ice but hold a stick and maneuver with it, turning, going backward etc.

Young girls have not had the same opportunities to play hockey like boys so it's not unheard of to have girls playing on boys' teams when young but they risk injury as they age. 40-30 years ago there were a lot of efforts to make girls' only hockey teams as a result.

Those playing this particular game must have had at least a few years practicing along with some sport background and would have knowledge of concussions, impact, speed, how to protect against injuries, etc. This is nothing but willful ignorance and I agree with others: delusional thinking. These players had to bury all they know about sports to assume this wouldn't end poorly for the female players.

Those playing this particular game must have had at least a few years practicing along with some sport background and would have knowledge of concussions, impact, speed, how to protect against injuries, etc.

I've only once been to an ice-hockey game, 20+ years ago. It was two NHL teams, the Montreal Canadiens vs I forget who - some US team. What I chiefly remember are the hip checks:

I think that's quite a good illustration of the power that comes from speed + deliberate impact.

Exactly. The ability dominate hip checks has a whole lot to do with male upper body strength.

Hitting the ice is harder than hitting turf. Adult men who play hockey full force against female bodies know better. They just don't care.

*to dominate

Hitting the ice is harder than hitting turf.

Not to mention being slammed sideways into the boards by someone twice your size.

Thank you, @NecessaryScene for flagging this up. It's led to a lot of discussion in this house and my partner, who has long been sympathetic in the sense of rolling his eyes at (for example) swimming and cycling, is now properly angry and fully on-side.

Here's a great article that better articulates this specific sport and how 14-15 yr boys who scrimmage with older female hockey professionals are not allowed to check or do other moves that could hurt their female opponents. Plus, a lot more detail about women and concussions:

quillette.com/blog/2022/12/09/ignoring-biological-reality-puts-female-hockey-players-at-risk/

@ArabellaScott‘s point about people conveniently forgetting (or to be honest, more likely never knowing) that “living one’s truth” comes with the caveat of your actions being limited by their potential to harm others reminds me of the way people are very keen on the idea of their rights but don’t tend to be so enthusiastic about the idea of the balancing responsibilities. Article 29 of the UDHR states Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible: astonishingly, not a human right I’ve ever heard a clamour to claim 🤨 (There are also some human rights that TRAs aren’t averse to trampling on 🙄)

When they were doing their remembering, do you think they just skipped over the fact that people they will have included - going from other such lists - were murdered by other trans people. There’s such incredible cognitive dissonance over it all.

I do think some of them, at least, might have genuinely bought the lies that TW don’t have an advantage over women in sport & testosterone basically gives you superpowers when you take it (but not when you make it, of course 🤨). There may also be a genuine inability to understand that it doesn’t matter they can’t do anything like what they used to - that hasn’t brought them into line with “female” because humans cannot change sex. In the US guidelines are different (shocker, I know) but as I posted in another thread recently:
We know it’s not all about testosterone. The healthy range for women is 0.7-2.4 nmol/l so even if it were just about that, having 4 times the amount of the stuff would be an issue. The testosterone level the NHS aim to keep trans men between? 8-14 nmol/l. Yes, you read that correctly, it’s routine for trans men in the UK to have a testosterone level below that [<10nmol/l]which allows trans women to participate in female sports; but trans men are not allowed to play female sports once they start “doping”.

As for trans joy - I know that they are trying to express that feel a particular & distinct type of joy; but every time I see it I am confused by it because it makes no linguistic sense. Trans joy is misery [that identifies as joy] - though according to The Rules TJIJ? Am not going to attempt further analysis in case an argument could be made for deletion; but 🤷‍♀️

Generally though, what a horrific mess. Please God they’ll not repeat this idiotic experiment again; & surely Santy can get that footage to a radfem who’s been a good woman this year?

One argument I see if that female players will get injured anyway in contact sports (which is true) so it doesn't really matter if they are injured by transwomen or women. Anyone with half a brain knows the likelihood and severity of those injuries will be vastly increased but they simply don't care.

We have reached the point where it's now obvious and up front that 'trans joy' involves the collateral damage to female bodies.

And that's supposed to be ok.

I started to comment on this last night and helpfully deleted myself so let's try again.

I sent the Quillette article to the husband, who loves sports but hates me wittering on about women's rights! He was interested though but told me this: both the NHL and Sport New Zealand have been in big trouble for racism and sexism and it's potentially costing them younger viewers - who view current fans as redneck racists.

So husband thinks both of these organisations are so ridiculously pushing for trans rights, potentially against the best interests of their female players, to virtue signal and attract young "woke" fans - look at us, we're so inclusive! (Don't leave us, we need your money!!!)

I think it's an interesting perspective - we've noted how often the trans agenda can seem misogynistic so no conflict there with the NHL advocating for trans women to join the women's teams.

Mixed sex hockey? Sounds legit. Is it wrong that I laughed? It’s just so seemingly obvious that this would have gone horribly wrong. But guys! Estrogen and testosterone blockers fix everything! They’re just big women that’s all! They struggle to open jars! Actual proof that it’s totally fair! 🥲