Respectful GC resources for teenage DS

[Balaya]

My DS14 has ASD and has always been rather gender non-confirming, very nearly falling into the clutches of Mermaids. He is also very nice and kind to people and will always side with the oppressed minority.

He is a 'he' but if asked pronouns (bloody school) makes a huge song and dance over 'he/she/whatever/I-don't-mind' . I have pretty much managed to stop this by telling him about the sorts of men who just say that to get into women's loos/changing rooms to spy on them.

So today he wants to tell me that TWAW. After a discussion we agreed that no one can change their biological sex but he still believed that TW should be treated as W.

I managed to get him to agree that it's unfair for TW to compete against women in sport, and therefore TWANW. But he was willing to make an exception.

So I reluctantly went with TW in women's prisons as I thought this would be quite clear cut but he did try to argue exceptions (no bad TW allowed in W prisons) although eventually agreed. And he thought there should be 3rd spaces for trans 😊

We left it there but I'd really like to point him at some appropriate and respectful GC material to keep it ticking over in his mind. Any suggestions? Thank you.

Material Girls by Professor Stock is excellent. I'm paraphrasing from a book review but it was described as if the two sides could meet in the middle they would find Professor Stock waiting with a picnic laid out.

If he's at all into maths invisible women by Caroline Criado Perez. Not directly about trans ideology at all, but outlines in incredible and thorough detail some of the ways in which sex is both real and continues to matter especially for women.

Are they doing the handmaids tale in school? Is 14 too young for all the horrific content?

If you think it would be appropriate now or in the future it would make a good springboard for discussion about women's sex based oppression.

All the things done to women in the books have been done to women in real life.

Jeeze, I really doubt any 14 yo will be able to get through material girls! I felt like I needed a pen and paper when listening to the audiobook! It's not a light read, and as great as it is, definitely aimed at degree educated adults.

I'd get him 'Sex and Gender, an introductory guide' by Phoebe Rose.

www.transgendertrend.com/product/sex-and-gender/

This book is great, aimed at the right age group, simple explanation of the difference and loads of illustrations.
Very much fact based and non-sterotyping approach. And only £3.99!

These all look good, thank you I'll give them a go.

He's a very young 14 so maybe reading handmaid's tale would be a step too far but I often need evidence when speaking to him so could definitely reference some parts as historically accurate.

I did think it was probably a bit of a heavy read for his age group.

JK Rowlings essay is short, simple and gets to the point. Its also completely accessible online.

OP I tend to use BBC articles about VAWG as a talking point. I bookmark them and sometimes we'll read one together.

Because they have little understanding of male violence, it's quite hard in the abstract for young men to see why women need safe spaces.

Children have a right to be wrong and also need to learn to respect others people's opinion. I think so long as he respects your view and does not want to transition himself then you have done an excellent job

Teenagers believe mad things and have always done (I wrote a cross letter to Micheal foot about deselecting Peter tatchell at that age) and will just double down if you push too hard

But a simple push back on getting him to think what it means to treat someone as a woman might get him to think

It's good to give them an opposing opinion because they see so much inaccuracy online. Had some interesting discussions with my 14 yr old too. He agrees you can't change sex and that genders are daft, that TW shouldn't be in female sport or prisons but believes you can have a female brain in a male body, sex is a mix of reproduction, hormones, brain etc and that there are hidden anti trans messages in JKRs essay! I have hope that he'll come round to facts. It must be hard though when all their friends are very captured.

I though that was a good explanation on Twitter twitter.com/zaelefty/status/1598700563348131841?s=46&t=Y1lg4fgo0dnB_HHB-MjO1g

Your kids don't have to agree with you, or to prioritise the issues that you do. So you need to start with that understanding and take it slowly and respectfully.

It sounds as though you did a really good job, and you can continue to have these good natured conversations that gently introduce the problems and make him think.
But I think buying books, making him watch things etc, comes close to indoctrination.

Continue to talk, and listen to him genuinely, and you'll get further than any book will.

I gave my same aged son JKR's essay and asked him to read it through before we discussed. He found it compelling.

He has a trans-identifying friend, so I made sure to reiterate I wish this friend nothing but the best. But I was clear that I didn't think 'best' included harmful drugs and surgery, but instead personal and societal acceptance of them as a person.

He got it.

I'd add that we started the conversation because he'd seen some radfem stuff over my shoulder and was worried that his beloved mama was an evil TERF, as portrayed and vilified by certain friends. So it was a response, not a starting point.

Be aware thread has been posted to Twitter by India Willoughby
Gender Critical brainwashing and abuse. Poor kid. Clearly disagrees with his terfy mum - but she won’t accept it 😞 Is this supposed to be good parenting? #Mumsnet 🤷‍♀️

Willoughby really can't get enough of Mumsnet!

Never heard of India Willoughby but she’s clearly got beef with mn

India Willoughby has, shall we say, a vested interest in children being raised to think that men can be women; even including men who have fathered children, presumably with their male brains or something, if that was what determined their sex at the time.

Nobody barring a few people with an unusual interest in newsreaders would ever have heard of Willoughby if it wasn't for Willoughby being transgender and grumpy with women about it.

This is great! Would anyone more techy than me be able to archive this Twitter thread please?

Here you are.

archive.ph/pgStn

Archiving is easy, for future reference - you just copy the URL and paste it into archive.ph.

That's it!

That is so interesting about sex being genetic not chromosomal.

You could show your DS that video within the Twitter thread OP.

The scientist clearly states sex is not part of a spectrum, and that there are only two sexes. It could help him feel more confident of facts in the face of peer pressure.

When topics like this come up, I tend to talk about critical thinking and try to encourage curiousity, rather than trying to argue any one viewpoint. (I'm aware that I'll have bias, and that's inevitable, so long as one is aware of that then we can try and counter with suggestions to read opposing views).

So I might suggest he read widely, ask lots of questions, and consider as many angles as he can.

Thank you for your responses, I'll certainly share them.

You are right in that what I want is a debate and discussion. I'm not at all anti trans, I have a close TW friend who I knew as a man for 10 years before he transitioned. She is decidedly TWANW. I also work with several non-binary people, seems quite common these days.

I am anti TWAW just because that harms women, and i'd like my son to actually think around the potential issues rather than blindly trying to be kind. I can't see how you can logically decide TWAW whilst balancing it with woman's rights which he feverently believes in. His ASD makes him a very logical creature so I am very interested to hear his thoughts.

Also very pleased that after we spoke yesterday he sought out some YouTube videos on gender identity and sport.