Repeal the Gender Recognition Act 2004

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There is a new government petition about this, which you can easily google and sign.

The gist is that opposing "self-ID" or clarifying that sex means sex isn't going to be enough to restore women's rights & child safeguarding, because the GRA has always been self-ID, and was designed so that 'gender' in law always trumps sex in practice.

Interested in your thoughts.

Yes. A much better solution though I signed both.

Thread with link on the Petitions board

Repeal the GRA www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4688427-repeal-the-gra

I'll sign this. The GRA is a complete bloody mess in legal and ethical terms, and the reasons it was brought in in the first place were partially homophobic.

The switching between 'gender' and 'sex' in the Act is infuriating; and what the hell 'living in your acquired gender' is supposed to mean god only knows.

Belt & braces? I can totally see why. That said, when I see a hashtag #NoToSelfID these days I just think the factual way to phrase that is #RepealTheGRA because the GRA was self-ID from its inception: telling a GP what your mates coached you to say to get your falsified birth certificate...

I strikes me that the Scottish reforms are in effect a marketing strategy to get more young people aboard the juggernaut. None of the men in places they shouldn't be - running rape crisis centres, DV refuges, or the female prison estate, need certificates, so how much more self-ID could the Self-ID Act actually be?

Good call, Crow. It was always about enabling people to live a state-enabled lie. Why should anyone be allowed to falsify their birth certificate? It's an historical record, not a wishlist of impossible things.

You can't ask someone for a GRC so they are quite right that the GRA has always been self ID.

I've signed, the GRA is bad law.

Cool. Do you understand why some feminists are campaigning against self-ID but not to repeal the GRA?

There might not be strong enough appetite for repeal yet. It might be more strategic to go with awareness raising and pushing for compromise right now. The more people know about the issue, the more people come round to the idea of repeal. And the more a reasonable compromise is explored, the more glaringly obvious it is that repeal is the only answer.

Do you understand why some feminists are campaigning against self-ID but not to repeal the GRA?

I'm a bit ambivalent and tbh not entirely sure why - possibly mere political expediency, what is most likely to succeed. However, I've signed the petition because it definitely ought to be raised and discussed - really both the petitions could do with being widely publicised so they get to the 100k mark.

Thank you for sharing this I wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. It seems to be gaining signatures.

You may well be right. I wonder how many of these 10 million Britons - if they knew that falsifying a birth certificate with the wrong sex is the purpose of the GRA 2004 - would back moves to repeal?

"Public support for transgender people being allowed to change the sex on their birth certificate has fallen sharply in two years.

The British Social Attitudes (BSA) survey found that 39 per cent of people were now opposed to the idea. The proportion supporting the idea has dropped by 21 points in two years, from 53 per cent to only 32 per cent."

"Researchers discovered that the balance of public opinion mostly tipped in favour of socially liberal views, except on the transgender issue."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/support-falls-for-trans-people-to-change-sex-on-birth-certificate-lb5ng83lc

That would be amazing to see both petitions hit 100k! I query, though, how expedient it would actually be to clarify sex in the Equality Act 2010 (it's already defined in s.212) when the whole purpose of the "gender reassignment" strand is to undermine sex...Legal "gender recognition" shunts sex out of the way, and that's what was always intended. I strongly welcome a Parliamentary debate, but do worry that the half-measure retaining the GRA would leave women treading water for another decade before people finally work out that the GRA itself is the problem.

You're welcome!

This is not something I would necessarily support, although I am fully against self id.

There is a very very small number of trans people who need to transition because of their gender dysphoria and I believe they should be supported in this.
That is a very small fraction of trans people today and would hardly have an impact on womans spaces.

I do not think it should be made easy for young girls or middle aged men to get a grc. Young girls often transition due to peer pressure and the fact its a current trend, and middle aged men - well major red flag.

But to repeal I think is cruel.

Better that we provide decent mental health services to understand the reasons for wanting to transition.

When we get to the position of a Girl Guide Lead Commisioner like this, we need to stand up and be counted.

Better that we provide decent mental health services to understand the reasons for wanting to transition.

Do the above and repeal the legal fiction, law should reflect reality, on the birth certificate we are male or female and that was the fact at the time the document was created.

What is the point in the GRA?

If it is illegal to discriminate against someone for how he or she is dressed then there is no need for reality to be obscured or for society to pretend.

GRA is only about hiding who you are. The DBS debacle should be reason enough to repeal if having laws which reflect reality and rolling back the confusion and social unrest caused in hospitals, prisons, schools, sports, refuges, shop and leisure centre changing rooms etc. isn’t enough.

As it stands since the GRA was introduced 18 years ago (2004) in total only c5,000 people in the UK have a GRC. To be clear that is less than 300 a year.
I suspect most those c5,000 are very likely to have gender dysphoria rather than paraphillia’s.

It will be very interesting on 6th January 2023 (provisional date) when the ONS publish the Sexual orientation and gender identity: Census 2021 in England and Wales. This will give an up to date idea of figures assumed in 2018 to be between 200,000 and 500,000 trans people in the UK.assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf

Potentially c500,000 people in the UK rely solely on the gender reassignment protected characteristic in the EA 2010. This is self ID not the GRA.

At this stage I think focusing energies on getting clarity in the EA 2010 when biological sex applies and protection of single sex spaces is the priority.

Realistically the government is more likely to reform the GRA than repeal it, and that could include self ID. I think we need a lot more transparency and shift in the narrative before I would want the GRA to be the focus.

As I said on the other thread, whilst I firmly believe the GRA needs reform, including clear definitions and safe spaces for natal women and girls, I don’t want to get rid of it entirely. I also think the petition “Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex”petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243 is the better approach to ensure single sex spaces are for biological females.

I think there is a place for a law that recognises gender reassignment, which may include non-binary and gender fluid, which has boundaries, clear legal definitions, a detransition process, protects children from being given drugs (and surgery), protects people from having surgery without proper counselling, requires proportionality when considering alternative arrangements, requires DBS to set up processes to ensure all previous names/genders are known and searched against as part of the process, requires all public bodies (NHS, CS, LA etc.) to keep accurate records of biological sex, gender reassignment (if you have one), medical treatment etc.

There have always been, and always will be, people with gender dysphoria and the law should recognise them but draw a clear distinction from people with paraphillia’s.

There is a very very small number of trans people who need to transition because of their gender dysphoria and I believe they should be supported in this.

People with gender dysphoria were able to transition and change name on all their documents before the GRA. The only difference a GRA makes is that they can now be issued with a falsified birth certificate and hide any inconvenient history.

The unclear use of sex and gender in law means that women will always be fighting for single sex spaces and fairness until we get rid of the GRA. We never needed the concept of legal gender or sex until the GRA because your sex was a material reality and no one thought that was controversial.

"This is not something I would necessarily support, although I am fully against self id."

You misunderstand, then. The GRA 2004 is pure self-ID, and was from the moment of inception. The purpose of the GRA is the political erasure of sex, via people applying for falsified birth certificates with the wrong sex on them.
Read Robert Wintemute's latest piece for confirmation: <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2022.12.03-214321/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/02/scottish-parliament-should-leave-gender-recognition-act/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2022.12.03-214321/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/02/scottish-parliament-should-leave-gender-recognition-act/

He writes "In 2004, the UK Parliament passed (for Scotland and the rest of the UK) a very generous Gender Recognition Act, the first in the world (at the national level) to allow a change of legal sex without any physical changes to the transgender person’s body."

All people have to do is tell a panel they feel like they were born in the wrong body, wait a couple of years, and they have "gender recognition" status conferred on them with a fake birth certificate. And we know that that legal status is not even needed for someone like "Sally Ann" Dixon on "Karen White" to access women's spaces.

You say "There is a very very small number of trans people who need to transition because of their gender dysphoria and I believe they should be supported in this. That is a very small fraction of trans people today and would hardly have an impact on womans spaces."

Not so, I'm afraid. While "5,000 transsexuals" were used as the rationale for passing the GRA, there are now as many as half-a-million people manifesting their metaphysical belief in transgenderism, in the UK. The number of fake birth certificates is a state secret (!). https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf

As for "needing to transition," that has nothing to do with the GRA which - as I demonstrate above - does not require people to do anything to their bodies. People who get these body modifications don't have to go through the legal gender recognition procedure either, to access opposite sex spaces, so it rather begs the question 'what is the GRA on the rolls for?'

"I do not think it should be made easy for young girls or middle aged men to get a grc. Young girls often transition due to peer pressure and the fact its a current trend, and middle aged men - well major red flag."

I agree with you. It should not be made easier for anyone to get a birth certificate with there wrong sex on it, especially in the middle of a corporate-driven social contagion of people denying their sexed bodies.

"But to repeal I think is cruel." Why? People who believe in transgenderism to the extent of seeking body modifications don't need to get a fake birth certificate for the purpose of equal marriage or pensions, since the Equality Act 2010 now provides those. What's "cruel" about not making any exceptions to the sensible rule that society does not issue fake birth certificates?

"Better that we provide decent mental health services to understand the reasons for wanting to transition."

I could not agree more with this! Why do people reject their sexed body? Paraphilias in men? Fear and anxiety in girls? Autism? Abuse? One thing I'm sure of is that colluding in someone's rejection of their sexed reality is cruel, not kind. Would we "affirm" that anorexics are fat and need to take diet pills?

It's the GRA and cognitive capture of organisations by the political erasure of sex that results in bizarre appointments like this, where all safeguarding has visibly gone out the window.

To close the safeguarding loophole we need to get rid of the law that works by erasing the importance of biological sex from public life.

Being able to change your sex on your birth certificate is madness and changing a factual historical document. Also I believe that not keeping biological sex recorded on medical records is extremely dangerous.

Thank you, OP.

And for excellent points made.

The fact that in Scotland we already have effective self ID even though the law for it is yet to be brought in confirms that the GRA has worked exactly as you say.

A male running a women's rape crisis centre.
Males in women's prisons.
Mixed sex toilets in schools.

Women do not have 'single sex spaces' anymore.

I follow your reasoning, and agree with you, until you get to the bit about clothes. I don't think it should be lawful for men to cross-dress during daytime jobs (nightlife is another matter) and where children are around, because we know about the explicitly sexual nature of that behaviour.

Rather than protect cross-dressers under sex discrimination law - as they do in the USA (and its a disaster for women and girls' rights) - they are already, and should continue to be, protected from losing their job or home under freedom of belief provisions.

But I cannot accept that men's public cross-dressing behaviours in every setting are some kind of serious human right. Nightclubs, theatres, private venues - sure, no problem. But as a teacher in front of school children, or a CEO in the boardroom? #NoThankYou

Thanks for this @Princessglittery

"I suspect most those c5,000 are very likely to have gender dysphoria rather than paraphillia’s."

"Gender dysphoria" started out as "gender identity disorder" - an invention of the sexologist John Money in the 1960s. He believed that everyone has a "psychological sex" predicated on rigid sex role stereotypes. He inflicted experimental surgeries on men with paraphilias, and on innocent children.

"Dysphoria" just means unhappiness. What other transitory unhappiness with multifactorial causes do we treat with amputations etc? "Dysphoria" just means that an adult with a paraphilia, or a child with complex unmet psychosocial needs, are in a state of metaphysical belief that they are "in the wrong body" and will be happy once their body is changed.

What is your basis for distinguishing these two groups - adult men with paraphilias, and everyone else? Research suggests that 90% of these men avoid "the Op." Research also tells us that 90% of children desist in cross-sex ideation after puberty. So what are we protecting here, exactly? A transitory belief, and a set of harmful cultural practices.

"Potentially c500,000 people in the UK rely solely on the gender reassignment protected characteristic in the EA 2010. This is self ID not the GRA."

The GRA itself is pure self-ID and has been from the start - please see my posts upthread. You're correct that the "gender reassignment" strand of the EA 2010 also provides for people to be treated as though the opposite sex, willy-nilly, with no safeguards whatsoever (there are no safeguards in the GRA).

"At this stage I think focusing energies on getting clarity in the EA 2010 when biological sex applies and protection of single sex spaces is the priority."

I disagree. How can we achieve clarity regarding the EA 2010 (sex is already defined at s.212, and the sex discrimination strand is already useless to keep rapists out of women's prisons, men out of refuges etc) when "gender" was put in there specifically to undermine sex? In practice, gender always trumps sex in law. Give me one counter-example where that is not true.

"Realistically the government is more likely to reform the GRA than repeal it, and that could include self ID. I think we need a lot more transparency and shift in the narrative before I would want the GRA to be the focus."

GRA reform has been rumbling on since 2018 in the UK, always on the basis of a fundamental misunderstanding: it is the Self-ID Act, and always was. Its purpose is the political erasure of sex. It will keep erasing sex from public life until we stop the process via repeal. It's long past time to tinker with a tool that is causing untold harm.

"As I said on the other thread, whilst I firmly believe the GRA needs reform, including clear definitions and safe spaces for natal women and girls, I don’t want to get rid of it entirely."

How can it possibly be reformed when the point of "gender" is to trump sex? Sex is already defined at s.212. It's useless for women, and will continue to be useless for women until legal gender recognition goes, and transgenderism is properly re-categorised as a belief. As a matter of urgency, we must start recognising sex in law again, not the metaphysical belief in gender identity.

"I think there is a place for a law that recognises gender reassignment, which may include non-binary and gender fluid, which has boundaries, clear legal definitions, a detransition process, protects children from being given drugs (and surgery), protects people from having surgery without proper counselling, requires proportionality when considering alternative arrangements, requires DBS to set up processes to ensure all previous names/genders are known and searched against as part of the process, requires all public bodies (NHS, CS, LA etc.) to keep accurate records of biological sex, gender reassignment (if you have one), medical treatment etc."

Sure. The way to achieve that is to re-categorise transgenderism as a belief under Freedom of Belief. That's all it is.

"There have always been, and always will be, people with gender dysphoria and the law should recognise them but draw a clear distinction from people with paraphillia’s."

Given that transgenderism is a belief, how in practices can the system be expected to distinguish those motivated by paraphilia from those who are desperately unhappy with who they are? We cannot, per Layla Moran, peer into gender-souls, or deploy the sorting hat. It's all irrational nonsense.