So that's why Susie Green left

[DistantVworp]

Charity commission launches formal inquiry into Mermaids:
twitter.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1598666394610147329?s=20&t=x_Supvwk6lHkKBR7a-ESSw

About bloody time!

I completely agree with the cult analysis, but I think there's one thing which hasn't been said about why girls, in particular, are so attracted in their early teens. And that's basically the patriarchy, in particular the relentless sexualisation of teenage girls.

Up until puberty, we tell girls that they can do anything, and be who they want. Then they get to thirteen, develop breasts and they discover that they can't, that boys and men are going to see them as sexual objects and not listen to what they say. It's reductive, grim and at that age pretty terrifying. How do you opt out of this? Well, you could cut your breasts off and say you are a man...

I've seen so many threads about trans daughters on here where the unifying factor is that the daughter had unusually large breasts and so couldn't escape the prison of men's objectification.

And it's not anything new either - but up until now anorexia was the most dramatic / effective solution for the teenage girl, to starve those breasts off and get rid of the objectification. Or less problematically - and I am showing my age her - to be a goth or an emo, to opt out of being conventionally 'attractive' and so of being judged.

But thanks to online porn, the sexualisation is both more relentless, is more graphic from their own peers and so is more frightening.

Trans is the newest and most socially acceptable - in all sorts of ways - means of opting out, and finding a safe space where you don't have to be part of the system.

There's loads more to work through in this - I suspect that one additional reason why transition is very appealing to people with ASD is not just a way of sorting their difference and finding a place to belong, I suspect that they find the mating rituals of teenagers hard to fathom and would quite like an alternative.

I completely agree with the cult analysis, but I think there's one thing which hasn't been said about why girls, in particular, are so attracted in their early teens

I'm wondering about cults as an extension of coercive control in family setting. It's eye-opening to read about the various permutations of coercive control and recognise so many of them and think about the impact on child survivors of settings where this happened.

This chapter is a free download for 2 months. I recommend it.

twitter.com/DrEmmaKatz/status/1598728687226163207

Download from here: academic.oup.com/book/44707/chapter/378972703?login=false

Thank you RethinkingLife, really useful and interesting link

It's off-topic for this thread but the section about Coercive Control and Family Courts and the high risk that mothers will be disbelieved and lose their children for even mentioning domestic abuse/coercive control has thoroughly disturbed me.

Of the cases where mothers claimed fathers were abusive but fathers counterclaimed the mother was engaging in “parental alienation,” mothers’ abuse claims were disbelieved 77% of the time. There was also a 50/ 50 chance that the court would take the children away from their mother and put them in the custody of the father: That outcome occurred in 50% of those cases. Almost three- quarters of mothers lost custody to the father when courts were actually persuaded by the father’s claims of “parental alienation”:

I'm working this through in my head but with every other social pressure and the complete lack of confidence in any rescue from the system (and the system as an extension of the perpetrator's coercive control), the grimness of dynamics that result in children's susceptibility to charismatic figures is seeming more understandable to me.

The parallels of parents who try to protect their children will end up having the system remove their children or enforce the unhealthy abusive relationship - it's strong enough that it's shaken me.

I unfortunately know a little about this after 3 friends have experienced that type of coercive control.

Luckily in their cases, social workers and police were wise to the manipulation by the ex's.

It has however still left the children with severe emotional damage. We are close the the children and it's painful to see the ongoing fall out from their fathers' input.

Luckily they have awesome, strong mothers. And two have new lovely partners which goes a little if the way to restoring some faith in adults.

I will bookmark the link though to read and pass on to colleagues

YY @NoShrunking I have said this a lot recently to friends. I don't blame teenage girls for wanting to opt out of this pornified shit show.

If the ready access to porn among my male peers had been the norm when I was younger, I would have run as fast as possible away from female puberty. It's sick.

Ipso complaint about an article in the Sunday Times in 2017! Already squirming under the microscope.

I'll look properly when I get a chance, but this is instructive...

www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/

Fox Fisher started a petition to try and overturn the court ruling in that case. It got fewer than 10,000 signatories.

The judgement said:
"I consider that M has caused significant emotional harm to J in her active determination that he should be a girl. I find that she has overborne his will and deprived him of his fundamental right to exercise his autonomy in its most basic way. Whether J chooses to present as a girl or not, ought to be his choice. This is not a case about gender dysphoria, rather it is about a mother who has developed a belief structure which she has imposed upon her child."

"It is also necessary for me to address the extent to which M has exposed J to discussion about surgical gender reassignment. Again, I have not found it easy fully to absorb her position on this point. As best as I can understand it M says that she took J to be advised on reassignment only to reassure him. It follows from my analysis above, particularly in the light of Dr Hellin's evidence that M believed J needed reassurance though he in fact did not.'

Incidentally, all this took place before Green took over as CEO but she was Chair at the time.

I wonder about J sometimes. I hope he's okay. It must be extraordinarily rare for a judge to rescind contact completely with a child's mother as happened in this case.

That judgment looks like it was a decade before its time. Or to put it another way, it was made moments before the mass gender-based hysteria took over everything.

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed167706

The judge's name is amusing in a kind of "the life that could have been led" way.

Wrong link, this is the right one (I hope): www.familylawhub.co.uk/default.aspx?i=ce5479

So Susie Green was chair of Mermaids before she was CEO? I vaguely thought that she must influential in Mermaids further into the past than her stint as CEO could account for. Does anyone have a timeline?

Incidentally, Fisher's petition wasn't entirely charitable. Fisher was partway through making a film about the mother and child in the case but the judge banned any coverage that might reveal the child's identity. The mother sought to overturn this but was unsuccessful.

"I am accordingly prepared to grant the restrictive order sought by the parties, save the mother and Associated Newspapers Limited, preventing her from speaking about any aspect of 'gender dysphoria or gender identification' in so far as these relate to J. For the avoidance of doubt the restriction extends, as seen from the wider terms of the order, to prohibiting the mother from broadcasting or publishing any detail of J's life which might identify him as the child subject to these proceedings."

Green was chair from November 2011 and became CEO in January 2016

one can only speculate about how misguided that film would have been

mum and ‘daughter’ against a cruel, cruel world I’m guessing

That judgement is utterly, utterly damning.

yet, rather than learning from this, it seems that SW and wider society have allowed themselves to be more captured by an ideology that causes them to turn a blind eye to alarming behaviour.

It’s interesting that both mermaids and stonewall were involved with the mother in that case too. Both are named in points made in the judgement.

Other than KF, I honesly don't know of any other forum or platform or news outlet or academic paper that is fully documenting the toxic, dangerous, depraved world of Discord and other online gaming spaces and the huge role they are playing in the normalisation of early sexualisation of children and the pro-p**n, pro-trans agenda.

All detransitioners I have listened to point to hese spaces as pivotal in their radicalisation.

We desperatey need proper research done, but in any case, when this is all done and dusted, the KF archives will be a rich source of evidence for prosecution counsels in US, Canadian and Uk courts.

Would be instakid was banned from becoming a media circus act by a judge.

Telling isn't it?

My brother was an early adopter. He was heavily involved in gaming to the point that he dropped out of a degree in his third year, because he was so addicted. He was on it all night speaking to people in the US and Canada.

He went to the US to meet a girl he met online as he was 'dating her'. He was then dropped like a rock upon meeting.

He then decided to go into animation and was obsessed with Manga. He was into fantasy stuff in a big way. And my parents paid for him to do a second degree. When he transitioned he dressed as a Japanese school girl.

I really do believe its these immersive online worlds and communities which are detached from the real world with this pornification influence creepying in about ideals over whats masculine and feminine (manga is very very heavy on the gender stereotypes and reflects this trend in japanese culture). They become full of people all the same so have no one to 'moderate' behaviour. Within echo chambers they become more and more extreme in thinking, almost with a culture of competitive need to 'prove' commitment to the cause'. If you are suffering you are authentic. This is almost evangelical in nature. And these communities replace traditional support structures - especially where evidence based and ethically / regulated avenues are unavailable (the car crash of US health system being paid for and commercially driven or just economically unaffordable). A common theme is these people tend to have rejected society / been rejected by society and have low self esteem. Thats why alternative culture - fantasy worlds etc - is probably often a theme too.

I find it fanascinating that upthread the Cult Information Centre actually specifies that cults form around therapy groups as well as the more well known religious idea and they look to operate on a not for profit basis (charities). In this sense Mermaids looks more text book than I had originally thought.

I do think the research will back up all of the above if done. MN has observed and noted a number of these things. It hasn't gone to the dark on the web like KF - partly because MN isn't techy based and women don't have as much time for these immerse online communications. Whereas the inhabitants of KF are actually often a part of that world. I find politicians are completely out of touch with this world and have a very poor understanding of online generally. The entire 'online harms bill' was a demostration of how little they know. Me and DH have often shook our heads in disbelief over some of the stuff people in authority have said about censorship and banning things because of a lack of comprehension. (Same goes for online security which is DH's field). There aren't any MPs with a recent well versed background in this as far as I know - as DH says, anyone with his skills can earn more in the industry than parliament but they aren't (yet) independently wealthy enough to give that up because of their age.

I dunno. This is kind of our world to a degree. We spent our twenties and early thirties in it. We like scifi etc. But we rejected the extremities of it. So you have to look at whats driving things to the extreme.

Lack of prospects in the real world, is the one thing that jumps out at me. Or at least a belief in that concept.

You really should consider writing all this up and getting it to a wider audience @RedToothBrush

Posted in the right place but might also be of interest to this thread.

twitter.com/thecassreview/status/1599763092476661760?s=46&t=XO8toVoadSdZWwItcC8z2A

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Cass-Review-Consultation-Response-FINAL-SUBMSSION.pdf

Agreed. Other than to note that KF isn't on the dark web. It's perfectly accessible via search engines.

I agree with you that politicans don't know how dark and perverse the web actually is and how quickly kids get sucked into it, only KF and to an extent 4chan really document the horror because as you say, the posters are often involved with that world anyway. Rather than screaming about hate sites, if I were President I would want to sit down with Josh Moon and some of the OG contribvutors and just ask questions and learn so I could get a better handle on the poison affecting our children.

I strongly agree with you that the Japanese manga / anime to p)rn to trans ideology pipeline is VERY strong and also for ROGD girls, with futa / fujoshi / yaoi etc.