WTF is the 'female patriarchy'?

[ArabellaScott]

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1597625219081871360?cxt=HHwWgICluYLr86ssAAAA

'Rachel Adamson of zero tolerance says their new report discusses the “female patriarchy” - that voices not heard before need to be promoted.'

Is this an actual attempt to kill off women's rights entirely?

The female patriarchy?

Cold hard fact.
It makes no sense to me to derail a discussion on what can we do for millions of women and girls by fighting over identity politics in the name of making a few women prisoners 100% safe when none of us are safe. These prisoners are already far safer than we are!

It's not a 'derail' to look at more than one issue at once. Rape is a massive issue. The admission of males into female prisons is also a massive issue.

You go ahead and work on whichever issue you feel is most important to you, the rest of us will do the same.

Women in prison are a particularly vulnerable group. They are detained in state institutions with no control over their environment or who they must share it with.

Any rape or violence they experience because the state has decided to house male offenders with them is a huge issue. The state’s responsibility to the people it incarcerates is enormous.

If amazes me that anyone with dismiss this as unimportant because it’s a small number of women. And out in civil society VAWG is widespread.

I guess though, they’re just the wrong kind of women. They don’t matter. Because prison just isn’t something that would happen to nice female patriarchs.

It always makes me feel slightly sick when I see the heinous argument of 'well, it's only a few women raped in prison by convicted male sex offenders - who gives a shit?'.

Some of the most vulnerable women (80% of female Scottish prisoners have suffered head trauma, mostly due to domestic violence) incarcerated with convicted male sex offenders, on the mere say so of the convicted male sex offenders (and who in Scotland anyway many of whom are discovering that their gender identity after being arrested and change back to their original identity the moment they leave prison) with no way out. Aided and abetted by the prison service. It is state sanctioned punative rape. To spare the feelings of convicted male sex offenders. (And I've said convicted male sex offenders many times, because I don't think it can be said enough, frankly).

It is state sanctioned punative rape

Yes.

It's not just a few women prisoners who are locked up with men in his majesties name with no where to run or hide.

It's the women and girls in changing rooms, hospitals, toilets etc.
Disabled and elderly needing care..

Who exactly are we fighting for when trying to eradicate VAWG if WG included men? How on earth can it ever work?

Rapes of female prisoners by male prisoners is a low number but significant in it happening because it shows how the patriarchy works: womens suffering are rated lower than male feelings and rapes of women is a small price to pay for making male prisoners lives better, according to the people in charge

Yeah but who gives a fuck about the tens of thousands of female Uni students being raped by male Uni students every year, am I right? Can’t talk about that until we make sure 1-3 female prisoners a year are completely wrapped in cotton wool and safe from all men in their own man free bubble. Some of these women are murderers and child abusers.

But yeah, it’s vitally important this is what we address first. Personally, I think issues should be addressed in terms of what serves the greater good. What benefits the most women and girls. Prisoner safety is low on my list. Girls are high on my list because they’re innocent children.

Exactly. You simply don’t think these women are deserving of your care.

Who exactly are we fighting for when trying to eradicate VAWG if WG included men? How on earth can it ever work?

Some people think that a male who identifies as a woman is somehow exempt from the male category.

Go ahead, OnnaBugeisha. Go and address those issues, I'm sure you could do great work. Nobody is stopping you.

Why you are here trying to persuade other women we're doing the wrong work is a mystery.

Yeah but who gives a fuck about the tens of thousands of female Uni students being raped by male Uni students every year, am I right? Can’t talk about that until we make sure 1-3 female prisoners a year are completely wrapped in cotton wool and safe from all men in their own man free bubble. Some of these women are murderers and child abusers.

Can't talk about that? Maybe you don't but I've seen plenty of talk about it here (Brock Turner and the Everyone's Invited being two such examples) and elsewhere. You want to talk about it more? Start a thread.

Some of us campaign for vulnerable women to be safe from state sanctioned punative rape and for other campaigns to keep women safe.

Rather than fetishising innocence and making moral judgements about who deserves protection, maybe you could consider that all women and girls deserve consideration. Even if their behaviour has been terrible.

The issue of prisons matters because the state has taken control over every aspect of these women’s lives. It is, therefore, the state’s responsibility to ensure they are safe from harm. Whatever they have done to find themselves in prison.

This is absolutely fundamental
stuff. If we decide that female prisoners in an environment the state is in control
of don’t matter, then there’s no chance of protecting women and girls in the community.

After all, we are making judgement about whether they are worth caring about the key criterion in whether we will intervene or even care.

So those students you think are more important. Well, you know, some of them might have been (gasp!) drinking or taken drugs. Or they might have had casual sex in the past (clutches pearls). Or any number of things that means we can decide that their well-being doesn’t serve the greater good.

It’s about enforcing boundaries. If women’s prisons can’t be kept as single sex spaces nowhere can. It is an easily understandable example of the huge risk allowing males to self identify into women’s spaces creates. It is one of those situations where you can say starkly - do you think it is acceptable to force women to share a space with a convicted sex offender just because that fully intact male says they are female?
If people can’t see the barbarism of locking up women with male sex offenders they are hardly going to be defending other safe spaces.

Prisoner safety is low on my list.

And there it is. Some women matter, and some women don't. Interesting take Onnabugeisha

Let's just hope you or your daughters don't accidently end up being the wrong kind of woman after you've given all their rights away to men.

I am confused. Who is saying that you can't talk about young women in uni being raped?

Is this coming from the same place that dictates that women can't hold two thoughts in their heads simultaneously?

If you want to solve the VA uni WG problem you still need to address the fact that 6 ft blokes can identify their way into their single "sex" flats, changing rooms, toilets etc. There's no safe space away from blokes for them either. Especially not in the lesbian groups.

Sure, you go ahead and spread yourself thin. You won’t get very far with that approach. It’s why the suffragists focussed on get the vote and only on get the vote.

I think it is a derail to insert identity politics into what should be a straightforward discussion about VAWGs. 99.999% of rapists and attackers are not transwomen; TW attacks are as statistically significant as attacks by pizza delivery men.

You have met resistance on this issue of TW, so you are wasting time and effort on this niche issue when you should be like a river and flow around the rock to tackle the issues that affect most women and girls.

Society isn’t going to care overmuch about a few TW raping when men raping is so rampant and goes unpunished. It actually is to the patriarchy’s benefit for all this palaver about TW being such a threat and danger as it takes the focus off the far more numerous men who are daily raping women and girls. They’re laughing at us fighting over what is a woman semantics because we are spinning our wheels getting nowhere on the bigger issues because of it.

I think it's great you're going to do work on protecting innocent girls, Onnabugeisha. I fully support you with that, and wish you all the best.

I suggest that work doesn't include telling other women they're doing it wrong and need to stop doing what they're doing. Expending your energy on that might even be a derail of your own important work.

Or are you demanding the labour of women here to support the cause you feel is more important?

Well it makes sense to me. It should be easy to solve .... no biological men in women's prisons, no rapes. Job done. 100% protection for vulnerable women in this situation.
This then makes it easier to argue for no men in other situations which should be single sex, protecting more women.
As an aside, there is no acceptable minimum level of rape in ANY setting.

We do not throw other women under the bus.

In what world is low priority= doesn’t matter? Every woman matters equally but I’m not going to say that 1-3 female prisoners matter MORE than millions of girls. Which is what you are literally arguing.

And you’re all being unrealistic to think feminists can address everything at once or even half a dozen things at once. To get anywhere we have to prioritise the needs and then tackle them. You’re defending whataboutery. Why can’t we talk about the safety of Uni students from the 99.99% of male attackers without someone going “what about TW?” I mean why? It just derails everything and no progress is made at all.

What? Talk about what you want, Onna. Make your own thread. Have at it!

I’m asking you to not derail the work of other feminists by riding in on a high horse and going “what about TW?” every fucking chance you get. Its hindering, not helping.

Nicola Sturgeon was 100% right to say no whataboutery on the TW issue in a meeting specifically for a VAWGs.

And there it is, you are defending your echo chamber. You don’t want diverse opinions from other women. Cheers.

No it’s really not. It’s not making a decision to allow male sex offenders in womens prisons, it’s saying, let’s set this issue to one side for now and priories the other 99.99% of women and 100% of girls.

There’s no “hierarchy” of women by deciding to focus the vast majority of women and girls before focusing on a select subset of women. It is merely a decision to do something that will benefit millions of women and girls ahead of doing something that will benefit only a few women.

So you really think that a society, which deliberately puts violent male sex offenders into places where vulnerable women , the majority of whom have already been victims of male violence, are unable to escape them, gives a damn about the other 99.9%.

And each one of those heinous acts against millions of women and girls has one thing in common....they were committed by a male.

TW are male. They are included in all discussions by virtue of their biological sex.

The evidence shows that they commit offences at the same rate as non-trans males. They are not a sacred caste who cannot be discussed any more than vicars, policemen, or male pizza delivery people.

The discussion is around keeping women safe and a major factor of this not allowing access to women in vulnerable situations. Some TW wish to have this access male pizza delivery people not so much.

No one is saying ‘what about TW’.

We are talking about female-only spaces. And ensuring that biological men do not have access to them. The rights of women to be imprisoned in female-only spaces.