Most women want women-only, female-sex only, facilities. Please tell me why women do not...

[CloudsAndLightDrizzle]

Most women need spaces free of males for, e,g, hospital wards, prisons, rape counselling, social groups. No male prisoners in women's prisons. I would think that's an obvious one, but no. Currently, if male offenders say that they are women, then they are waved into the women's prison estate. Questions have been asked, but apparently, male rapists' feels that they are "women" will always overridden actual women's rights.

Why are women's voices and women's preferences for single-sex women's spaces, and for child safeguarding, so fiercely opposed?;

At the risk of sounding "what about the men" on FWR, most men prefer single sex facilities too. Be they hospital wards, changing rooms or toilets.

Yes it’s not just safety. It’s privacy and dignity too.

But that is precisely the same as saying ‘I shared a room with one male so every woman should share a room with any male person.’

I couldn’t care less if other women have had good, unthreatening experiences sharing with men. I don’t see why him being effeminate or believing himself to be different to other members of his sex is relevant.

i feel no less uncomfortable with an effeminate male, than a huge, hulking bear of a man. In my experience, you cannot judge a book by its cover as to how respectful and gentlemanly a man is going to be towards women.

Setting aside the safety factor of course. If a bloke is small enough for me to think I could take him down (very unlikely) I would feel safer, but I would not trust him to be any more decent or respectful than a big man.

There's this thing about consent. One woman can't waive the rights of other women. All people have to agree before consent is gained. Women have not collectively consented to have all spaces mixed sex, therefore, no matter how nice your friend, your child, your spouse, your co-worker, other women do not consent for them to be allowed in.

Yes. And I am one of those women. I do not consent.

Yes you shouldn't just be able to say you're trans when you fancy, there should be checks and balances and thorough assessments

@endlesscraziness
Great! What criteria would you use to assess whether someone is trans? Have a stab at it.

I know you won't, but why not at least think about why you won't?

I've shared rooms with men and not felt threatened or unsafe.
Does that mean we should let men into single sex spaces?

FWIW I've also spent time with trans women and not felt unsafe.
I've also been raped by men and abused by men and transwomen.

I've been verbally abused by women too. But I felt far less threatened than when it was a man/transwoman.

yes some trans people have body dysmorphia and no doubt they struggle with their born sex and prefer female facilities. The law stands in here and allows male bodied people with a Gender Recognition Certificate to be classed as woman. Presently this is only a few thousand. Sadly regardless of how people identify the offending patterns of genetically male people are the same and this puts women at great risk of harm. Females identifying as men do not pose the same level of risk to males. Female offending patterns are totally different.

One dd for instance has chosen to share with 1 woman and 2 men (bunks) rather than all female because the banter is better!

I used to think like that and then one day I woke up with an unwanted hand between my legs. If only we could tell who the predators are...

Although the man I married thinks it's not a case of good men versus bad but entirely one of circumstances* and looking back at my own experiences I think I (sadly) agree. My father's squadron leader wrestling 10 year old me on my bedroom floor, the friend who put his hand in my pants, the Harrier pilot dressed as Santa who made me squirm on his knee as a teen. The men who called me Jailbait and Lolita, who commented on my body and it's fuckability in my Brownie Uniform. All the comments, the hands, the jokes...I doubt any of them would see themselves as a threat or a reason to excuse men from women's spaces. I just wasn't saying NO! loud enough in their opinion.

*mostly believing a lack of consequences for their actions. His family are decidedly upper class and one relative kept a detailed journal. When he wasn't sending the peasants to Australia for stealing ducks amongst other things, he was raping the maids and detailing it in his diary because he literally was the law. This was certainly true of the man who raped me. He thought that his word would sit above mine and he was right.

@endlesscraziness
I've shared a room with a trans woman. She went through hell to transition in the military years ago. Whilst there could be a few men that try their luck with the likes of prisons, how can you deny genuine trans people?

Why is it that only  transwomen 's fear of sharing spaces with men, is considered valid? 

Why is it not equally valid for women to object to sharing spaces with men, for the same reason?

you also wrote

"I'm willing to bet anyone 'faking' being trans isn't going to chop off their penis."

Which is exactly why women don't want to share their space.

@endlesscraziness "I'm willing to bet anyone 'faking' being trans isn't going to chop off their penis."
Your mistake is in believing trans people have that surgery. Thats not what 'trans' means.
Self ID literally means any man can declare he is a woman with no checks. Even if he has convictions for sexual offenses.

"I'm willing to bet anyone 'faking' being trans isn't going to chop off their penis."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jailed-killer-who-chopped-testicles-9882176

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2016/aug/11/transfer-womens-prison-settles-formerly-male-prisoners-gid-suit/

https://hollywoodunlocked.com/transgender-prisoner-inmates-testicles-new-jersey/

I don't think I would characterize it as "not listening to women" any more than I would say any other group is of one opinion on social matters.

It's socially contentious, and some of the most vocal TRAs I know are women, and overall I find men more likely to be skeptical of gender ideology.

That's not to say that the majority of women, or people, think there should be mixed sex prisons. Most don't. But there is a significant number who really believe TWAW and they very much believe they have the moral high ground.

Most transwomen don’t ‘chop off their penis’. They don’t see why they have to. They’re ‘women’ with penises. Otherwise known as men.

So who do you propose letting in to female, single-sex spaces, @endlesscraziness ?

’People with penises’ (previously known as ‘men’) don’t come with danger signs to warn who are the bas guys and who are the good guys.

So how do you propose we tell?

You won’t answer this. No-one arguing for free admittance of male-bodied people into female-bodied spaced ever, ever does.

Also the «you share your toilet at home» baloney.
yes, we share our toilet with our family and people we have invited into our house.
Not with every random Tom, Dick and Harry that happens to be in the vicinity.

The few women I know who are wholesale into this believe this are fully committed to the notion of of the poor suppressed community who just want to live their authentic life. At least one has been a victim of sexual violence but uses that as a badge of 'well I have, but I don't think it makes a difference.' They also believe that Rape should be a woman's crime as well as there was that woman with a vibrator who tricked another women into believing she was a man.

Those are not my feelings, nor those of most of the women I know who I've discussed it with. (Although many started off with the trans people are the victims and move onto why does it even matter.)

It depends on the setting. So I am very happy to have a male doctor, as I just want someone who is appropriately qualified. I have been treated by a male gynaecologist, who was excellent. I'm also not fussed about unisex loos, because everyone is in a cubicle.
I think I might draw the line at changing rooms - but I don't like communal changing rooms anyway - and I can see that there would probably be too many issues with mixed sex prisons, so they need to be separate.

I'd be more comfortable with a male medical professional who understands he is a man than one who identifies as a woman, because it's not possible to identify as "a woman" unless you believe womanhood is a bundle of mental traits.

I find that belief belittling, othering, regressive and offensive so I would find it very hard to put trust in a person who has those beliefs about me.

Because women’s safety, privacy, dignity, needs are not considered a priority or worthy of respect. In the real world, male bodied people in spaces where women feel vulnerable will cause women to self exclude from services or facilities or else cause distress. It’s not acceptable at all.