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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Employment of men/ protecting vulnerable staff

33 replies

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 05:52

I wonder if more knowledgeable people could help.
I have set up a small company with a talented marketeer. Unfortunately she was subject to a violent relationship which has made her scared of men.
I know that she finds it difficult to be around men however we are getting far more male applicants for vacancies than women. I want to be fair to everyone but I have a number of staff who really don't like working with men. We are a female aligned business. Any advice welcome.

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Hoardasurass · 22/11/2022 06:43

I'm not quite sure what you are asking, is it how to keep your staff safe? How to ensure that your female staff are comfortable with/around male staff? Or if you can discriminate against males?
Basically without more information no one can help you other than pointing out that there are legitimate legal areas/jobs where you can discriminate against men under the equality act however they are very specific and not just 1 of my staff is afraid of men.
If you are asking how to encourage more women to apply for the jobs I would suggest that you look at the job description you are using and the way that you are advertising it as its most likely tailored towards men (the default of most job advertising).

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 07:54

@Hoardasurass
I am not sure of the question really. I have been up most of the night worrying about my colleague. I hadn't considered the tone of the job ad and perhaps it needs softening.
I have a family of solicitors so on that side I am okay for advice it is more how shocked I have been about how many people don't want to work for a man. Their choice of course. In my career I hadn't really thought about it until recently. We are currently an all female team bar a few freelance people.

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LaughingPriest · 22/11/2022 08:00

Is this some sort of attempt to equate working with accessing rape crisis services or changing rooms?
Agree with pp, more information is needed. It sounds rather odd I'm afraid.

What job ad, what tone?

ZeldaFighter · 22/11/2022 08:12

Make it a part time or job share role - men will run a mile and you might get two brilliant women. Or ask the most successful woman if she wants to work full-time.

Also perhaps look into a work health benefits scheme so your current employee can access counselling and support?

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 08:20

@ZeldaFighter thank you. Job share hadn't been considered.

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KnickerlessParsons · 22/11/2022 08:23

It's illegal to actively discriminate based on sex when hiring employees. If you have an employee who is frightened to work with another employee you have to address the working situation, but you can't not hire someone because they are a man.

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 08:56

@KnickerlessParsons I am aware of all aspects of employment law. The issue is the fact I can't guarantee we will never employ men and my senior colleague might leave.
Yes it seems unreasonable but I actually don't know what to do. I am married and have a son so not adverse to men!
In my industry all the top jobs go to men. We set out to change that and now we are expanding we are not getting enough women applicants. And I don't want to be sued!

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ANameChangePresents · 22/11/2022 09:00

You are not obliged to offer your colleague guarantees about the sex of people you will employ in the future. Any more than you would offer a Muslim colleague guarantees that won't employ a heathen. You can feel sympathy for someone's circumstances without being held hostage to the point of being grossly unfair to others.

DuchessDandelion · 22/11/2022 09:13

I love that you've placed female empowerment at the centre of your business and this can continue while employing men. You focus on fostering a safe environment where harassment isn't tolerated, where men do not shut down/talk over/pinch ideas from women etc.

With regards this specific employee, if you value her contribution to your company that much then I would involve her to some extent in the process. Not necessarily by bringing her into interview rooms! (Unless appropriate by nature of her role) but you can ensure you're taking steps to help her feel safe at work and be supportive without allowing her to dictate your hiring policy.

Ultimately, if she refuses to work with men that's her problem, not yours and reduces her value to your company.

You can take steps, but she is responsible for herself and she cannot expect to work for a discriminatory company. You choose the best person for the job, regardless of sex, while introducing working practices that empower women. As a pp said, part time roles are a brilliant way to enable this.

Rainbowshit · 22/11/2022 09:19

This is such a bizarre post. How is your colleague going to manage to get work, if she genuinely won't work with men, unless she chooses to work in a job that has a genuine occupational requirement to discriminate by sex?

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 09:26

@Rainbowshit I believe she will not work if she leaves the business. She has private money.

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DuchessDandelion · 22/11/2022 09:30

Could you also offer jobs on a contract basis? You'd need to be hot on employment law, obviously but if you want to be able to higher someone who is the best candidate who also happens to be a woman, with no women applying, then you could offer it on a contract basis which would give you flexibility until the right person comes along?

paintitallover · 22/11/2022 09:31

You are trying to grow a business, so do that. You have an employee who has some mental health issues, in effect, however they are caused. Make reasonable adjustments for them. You don't reorganise your business for her. Perhaps, for example, she could work from home.

WaveyHair · 22/11/2022 09:33

Will your friend be involved in the interview process? Would this help if she had some say and control in who she works with.

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 09:42

@WaveyHair
My colleague does interview. She has shares in my company. Agreed at the time of the company formation. I really enjoy working with her and I guess I didn't see this situation popping up.

I was looking for thoughts on helping with her concerns. I am sorry if some people think it is bizarre.

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caroleanboneparte · 22/11/2022 14:25

If all the jobs in your company are part time (job share when required) hiring men won't be a problem!

BellaAmorosa · 23/11/2022 08:26

@FancyFran
I wanted to say I don't think your post is bizarre. It's ridiculous to compare well-founded anxiety about men to racism or Islamophobia - this is more like PTSD. Also it sounds like this woman is more than just an employee to you, so of course you care about her wellbeing and take her concerns seriously. She's a human being to you. And she has backed you by investing in your business.
I also applaud you for trying to do something positive about the male-female imbalance in your industry. For this reason, I don't think it would be morally wrong to only recruit women - clearly, other businesses in your field are prioritising men! Whether it's legal is another matter.
I think if appropriate, involving your friend in the early stages of the application process might help. Knowing that you are making adjustments for her will help her. Ultimately, your business comes first, of course.

BellaAmorosa · 23/11/2022 08:43

Apologies, @FancyFran , I see you have already said that your employee would be involved in the recruitment process.

FancyFran · 23/11/2022 08:49

@BellaAmorosa
Thank you.
We do have a fair old mix, BAME, different religions, LGBT. At present no men but our suppliers are men ditto techs because it is nigh impossible to source anything else.
I did have a further chat with my colleague yesterday and I think we can look for 'feminist qualities'. Decent, respectful, no leg spreaders. She seemed OK with that.

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AlisonDonut · 23/11/2022 08:49

FancyFran · 22/11/2022 09:42

@WaveyHair
My colleague does interview. She has shares in my company. Agreed at the time of the company formation. I really enjoy working with her and I guess I didn't see this situation popping up.

I was looking for thoughts on helping with her concerns. I am sorry if some people think it is bizarre.

I'd sit down and have a conversation with her to be honest.

Would it be company policy to be a woman only company? Is there a valid reason for this in that you may provide job roles specifically for women. What is your organisation trying to do in the world that means males shouldn't be employed in it? Are you specifically going to work for female clients for example?

Look to companies such as Women in Construction, what legalities have they brought in to only employ women?

You need to do this together even if it is your company as they are a shareholder.

I used to run a training company and although I mainly hired women it was necessary to bring males in as it provided role models for the young men we were working with. Seeing women using heavy tools and men doing cooking blew their minds but it was essential to the work we were doing with male aggression and their life journeys. If we were purely working with young women we may not have done so unless the role was needed for some reason. You have to think all these things through and think 'can I justify this in a court of law'.

AlisonDonut · 23/11/2022 08:54

I don't think 'decent feminist qualities, no leg spreaders' would be a valid reason in court.

FancyFran · 23/11/2022 09:01

@AlisonDonut possibly not but that was a take on the conversation, a quip on social media . I didn't put this on legal as everything is checked through a employment lawyer. I wanted some advice on how to handle her reaction. Naturally my lawyer has said it is not her concern. Perhaps I posted in the wrong place.
We seem to have made headway yesterday.

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AlisonDonut · 23/11/2022 09:09

If you cannot cope with someone pointing that out on here, you are going to be really, really in trouble if someone decides to take you to court!

You can't just have a light conversation about this, if it is a fundamental issue then it needs all shareholders to be fully aware and have it written into your constitution. Or you can carry on just denying men jobs and land in hot water.

As I said, you all need to be on the same page and have an understanding of what you are about.

FancyFran · 23/11/2022 09:16

@AlisonDonut I haven't denied any man a job. I asked for advice around a colleague's reaction.
As I have previously said I have legal advice. Thank you for your thoughts.

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EmbarrassedNameChangeDontJudge · 23/11/2022 09:30

OT: What does female aligned business actually mean? I googled but didn’t find a straight answer.

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