How can you be trans and non binary?

[catfunk]

I noticed today a post from Indya Moore on Instagram about being trans (I had no idea they were trans just follow as I thought they were v beautiful/ enjoy their pics)

Indya described hormone therapy as 'gender affirming for them ' - no mention of sex/ surgery.
But they describe themselves as trans & non binary.

I don't quite understand why you'd need to 'transition genders' if you don't have a gender ? Am I being thick?

No idea. People who make these assertions about themselves are exhausting. I can’t be bothered to do the mental gymnastics to work it out.

Basically, it means they’re Very Special Indeed.

wow what a lot of bigoted hatred you have inside.

justtellingthetruth it is not hatred to point out that something makes no sense or is untrue. It might be painful, but if gender ideologists don’t want people to point out inconsistencies and untruths, they don’t have to insist on them, and even worse insist other people accept them, in the first place.

please seek help and learn to foregive

Forgive what? Are you saying you agree that an ideology that tries to force people to believe and say things that aren’t true is actually doing something wrong?

I have no issue with people with dysphoria about their sex, any more than I have issues with people with other types of body dysmorphia, anorexia etc. I think they should get belt and treatment. I think most people who criticise gender ideology also have nothing against and do not “hate” people with dysphoria.

However it is normal to strongly dislike being told what to think when it goes against all sense and logic and evidence, and being bullied for having a protected and reasonable “belief”, I.e. an evidence-based understanding that humans can’t change sex and that many people are suffering from this ideology being adopted and pushed by the mainstream. Children and young people who identify as trans are among those who are being harmed and who we want to protect.

People being annoyed at being expected to believe nonsense doesn’t mean they hate trans people. A conflation and lie that is regularly used to shut us up and is then believed by others who haven’t thought it through.

think about it. Why exactly would left wing lesbians and feminists suddenly become hate-filled bigots? Can you explain?

Sorry help not belt, bloody autocorrect

If man doesn't mean male and woman doesn't mean female, what exactly do these words mean?

There is damage associated with nonbinary identities. A friend of mine now has a nonbinary spouse. There are a lot of incidents and emotional support required leading up to that identity declaration, and I can't say the outcome so far is exactly a shining example of happy functionality. I'm seeing my friend bend until she almost breaks under the weight of it all. I suppose as a coping strategy it genuinely does beat alcohol, drugs or gambling.

**

I've never met anyone binary but then I don't mix with very old fashioned highly conservative people.

Before we can forgive trans ideologists they need to apologise for all the harm they've caused to women and girls.

COULDNT HUV PUT IT BETTER MASELF

I see 'bigot' and 'hatred' are the new 'vile' and 'fascist' which were the new 'funded by the Christian right wing' and 'slur'.

I find it really interesting how the TRAs use this deliberately emotive language to try and discredit people who simply disagree. I wonder, do they see how it just takes the power out of those words and renders them meaningless due to inappropriate mis-use? I mean if someone called me a vile TERF a few years back I'd have felt a bit stung. Now I just laugh. As PP said, it's all they've got left as everyone can see the queer idealogy is just based on trying to make normal, complicated human beings who are either male or female seem special and interesting when they're mostly just normal, boring or inadequate in some way (or a teenager).

You'd think in the 4+ years I've been on here asking that question, at least one single person might have attempted a reply, wouldn't you?

They can't. They don't know, or they don't want to say, but it's vitally important that everyone update their definitions to this undefinable unknowable concept to avoid being transphobic.

As I've said many a time - if you want to redefine the words, sure, give the new definition and we can at least see what 'woman' is supposed to even refer to. Never happens. I use a fluid definition myself- today, if someone isn't using it to mean 'adult female', I assume 'woman' means 'person of either sex who dropped bolognese on their jumper today'. All women have that as a common factor. Could be veggie or meat bolognese, it's an inclusive term.

Tomorrow's definition is 'person of either sex who unexpectedly found £1 at the bottom of their bag or briefcase'.

It's lovely that even someone who thinks we are bigoted can take the time to come here and demonstrate that even they don't know the answer to the OP.

Both sides are equal in that respect!

Also, why/who are you advising we forgive PP? What has any trans person done to me that I am supposed to be pissed off about and need to forgive them?

I mean the movement has done extensibe damage to women and young people, collectively, and I'm pretty annoyed about that but I don't blame any individual trans person, especially as many of them are just getting on with their lives.and not actively campaining to harm women and young people.

Whatever happened to Jess Bradley? Must have graduated by now? Boring accountant?

PMSL at 'Burstromantic' 😂

It's a load of narcissistic bullshit. That's why.

Non binary re-asserts a binary.

Them and us.

They're basically the yuppies of the 21st c.

But the motivation isn't investments and shares now, it's likes and shares.

There is not one person who claims to be non binary who has not accessed social media.

Exactly!😁

He missed out the bit about being a cat at weekends.

The thing is that without a new definition of "woman" and "man", I don't know whether I am one, or the other, or something else entirely.

If a woman is a female person, I know that I am one.

If a woman is something other than a female person but no one can explain what one actually is, how do I know whether I am one or not?

If the word "woman" can have two alternative meanings, one being "female person" and the other being something else, we are using the same word to describe two completely separate groups of people. This is problematic in terms of communication, because it means the word can no longer be used to clearly identify which group of people we are talking about. It's also potentially problematic in terms of women's spaces and women's sports.

If the group of people in "women: female people meaning" and "women: alternative meaning" don't actually have anything in common, what is the logic for them sharing women's spaces and women's sports? Surely you'd be better off abolishing single sex spaces and sports altogether, rather than arguing for "women: female people meaning" and "women: alternative meaning" to share.

The "Burstromantic" thing (and all the other similar nonsense) is ridiculous. It's so obviously "Ooooh noooo, I'm straight and boring, how can I be "queer"? - let's just make up dozens of "gender identities" to match entirely normal personality variations". They are so obviously, face-palmingly MADE UP.

What gets me is why anyone takes any of it seriously, especially institutions, governments and employers. I mean things like astrology and birthstones and whatever are similarly a pile of bunk in scientific terms, but some people get something out of them so fine. I have nothing against that at all because it's not being forced on me. Why can't we treat genderwoo the same? Why has announcing you're a special category that was made up last week - and somehow magically ARE that special, unproveable thing and so are oppressed and need to be prioritised above all others, including actually disadvantaged people - become a thing that's seen as real?

To answer the OP, non-binary people are "trans" because - in the parlance - they don't "identify" with their "gender assigned at birth" (i.e. sex). It is a way to get the kudos of being "trans" without any particular commitment to any changes at all - which I think is good in one way, that people are avoiding the harms of surgery etc (at least in some cases).

(and when I say kudos I'm not just being sneery - "coming out as NB" makes you "marginalised" and "under-represented" in many fields, especially creative industries, and can give you a huge advantage - I see this all the time in publishing)

But all of us who already didn't identify with a binary gender stereotype and stick to it rigidly - which is almost everyone - knows it doesn't make you special in any way.

Thanks for summing it up so neatly! I would add that the whole trans ideology rests on this too.

Exactly.
Also, if being trans is "where sex doesn't match your gender" - which genders match any sex, if being female/male isn't a requirement for any gender? They're nothing to do with each other, so how can they 'match' or 'align' or 'correspond'?

In order to say that the female sex matches the 'woman' gender you are basing your whole definition on the assumption that there is something female about a woman. While also denying that there is anything female about a woman.

So, presumably, sex 'female' and gender 'woman' don't match. How anyone works out they're trans without the list of matching sexes and gender I'll never comprehend. Not a single genderist will say what they are, though.

Things were far more easy to understand when 'trans' meant 'a strong wish to be the opposite sex'. I get that and am sympathetic to it.

Because it gets you more attention having more than one label?

Did you ask what the mean? Would be helpful if you did and post the response here.

Also, if being trans is "where sex doesn't match your gender" - which genders match any sex, if being female/male isn't a requirement for any gender? They're nothing to do with each other, so how can they 'match' or 'align' or 'correspond'?

@LaughingPriest I have repeatedly asked people to describe the characteristics of the gender/gender identity which supposedly "matches" having a biologically female body, and no one can explain.