Is it okay to work with groups whose principles you dont share as a feminist, but there is a common cause?

[IwantToRetire]

Education not indoctrination
The events was organised by a coalition of groups including the Christian Institute, which opposes abortion, same-sex marriage and euthanasia, Stand By Me Scotland, which opposed the wearing of facemasks in schools during the pandemic, Academics for Academic Freedom and For Women Scotland, which opposes Scottish government plans for people to be able to self-identify their legal gender.
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/education-not-indoctrination-tickets-426737442177

Glasgow venue cancels booking for cancel culture conference
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/04e3fa4a-6696-11ed-9c3b-2d9184d0076f?shareToken=4ffe4f56d755905a476b686c75b65dd0&fbclid=IwAR1UHupPu9Xu4bD_gF0JoJb0A9u-bE2RDTcRqmbt9c8bpRUird9JTGbG8o8

My above reply was in response to @beastlyslumber slumbers reply.
Although I lurk on these boards, I haven’t signed in for months and clearly forgotten how to quote or reply to other messages.

But it has confirmed my growing suspicion that while it is possible to be GC without being transphobic, that is definitely not what's going on here.

You have demonstrated that you have absolutely forsaken feminism for transphobia. It absolutely does matter in this world who you choose to agree with and care about in political and social issues. If you have gotten to a point where you're happy to go along with such definitively antifeminist people because they're also against trans people... Well if it were me, I'd be doing some serious self reflection.

”rejecting any association with literal anti abortion and anti gay marriage advocates”

“I did myself feel that was more the bare minimum of being a feminist or even woman who wanted to retain her rights”

Well, I disagree.
Firstly, because you are being illogical because gay rights and women’s rights are not the same thing.
Secondly, some people are anti-abortion, and I respectfully disagree with them if they are absolutist about it, but I can see their point.
Doesn’t make me less of a feminist.

I have worked, sometimes unknowingly, with people who are anti-abortion, and it might comes as a surprise to me, but I really don’t think my colleagues private beliefs are any of my business. It’s not like they are getting me to pay for their placards to stand outside abortion clinics is it? If the work we are doing is nothing to do with abortion, why should I reject any association with them? People are varied and complex.

Your argument Dreamwhisper comes across as crude and ham-fisted to me, as though you don’t regularly re-examine your beliefs. Perhaps it helps you to believe your are unequivocally right about things.

It absolutely does matter in this world who you choose to agree with and care about in political and social issues.

I thought the issue was 'work with'? Or 'attend an event with'.

Now you're saying 'agree with' and 'care about'.

You're moving the goalposts. It makes it very difficult to actually get anywhere in a discussion. I say, I'd go to this event, and you say oh so you agree with X then? I say I'd consider working with X, you say oh so that's who you care about.

As previously explained, going to an event, listening to a speaker, or even sharing a platform with them, does not imply agreement, alignment, support or 'care'. If it did, then they would also be aligned and agreeing with you, and nobody ever thinks that will be the case.

Are you actually serious? The woman saying she's not comfortable attending events to hear views from anti abortion and anti same sex marriage groups is the anti-feminist?

She’s not comfortable listening to feminists either, and she is coming along to throw shade on those feminists, with the intent of undermining the event and the efforts of those feminists.

What do you call that?

I‘m all for free speech, but - seriously - how long can one discuss, whether it is ok to do the single one thing (Building broad Alliance) that gives you a chance to actually bring about change and make the world a better place for women?!?

100%.

Glad to have all these allies here on this thread in complete accord with my views, thank you to each and every poster all for the support.

you have absolutely forsaken feminism for transphobia

If a person doesn’t recognise the notion of ‘trans’

(ie- they acknowledge some people wear the clothes and styling associated with the opposite sex, some others have medical interventions to make their bodies and/or faces mimic the opposite sex and some adopt mannerism and stereotyped behaviours associated with the opposite sex, but they don’t believe such people need to have a new name or human category associated with them, because they are still exactly the same person they were before, just that they are wearing different clothes or had some surgery or messed about with their endocrine system.)

how can that person be transphobic?

We already have words like butch and femme, or gender non-conforming, to describe the phenomenon of people who engage in these stylings and body morphications. Why do we need a new word?

'against trans people' - what utter nonsense.

I care very much that vulnerable people are being used and harmed in the services of an ideology. I appreciate that many people who believe themselves trans disagree with my views, but I would fight for their rights to proper, evidence-based healthcare and freedom from discrimination, just as I'd fight for women's rights.

@EndlessTea do point out where I said I wasn’t comfortable listening to feminists? I’m intrigued.

And yes I am intolerant of religious beliefs that hurt others in the same way that I’m intolerant of the aspects of self ID that hurt others.

The woman saying she's not comfortable attending events to hear views from anti abortion and anti same sex marriage groups is the anti-feminist?

There is nothing to indicate that those views will be expressed in the meeting, but frankly what is the use of a "feminist" who is incapable of defending their point of view. The argument about abortion, for example is an ongoing one. For many years women in the USA had their entitlement to abortion facilities guaranteed, now that is history. Surely we need to engage with pro-lifers, not just run away.

As for anyone suddenly questioning the need to safeguard children or the impossibility of changing sex because Hitler or someone abhorent also holds those believes, the idea is absurd.

That would be great if that was the point either I or the thread were making.

I would be more than happy to go up to debate pro lifers or even, if appropriate, hear them out.

Going along to an event in support of them because they hold one belief in common with me, for totally the wrong reasons, covers neither of those things. I is a bad faith argument to suggest that anyone would be going there under the premise of the OP but also going under there to speak out against the same groups.

It would be nice but it is just not the reality of the situation.

Also, I am not a "feminist" I am a feminist.

frankly what is the use of a "feminist" who is incapable of defending their point of view. The argument about abortion, for example is an ongoing one. For many years women in the USA had their entitlement to abortion facilities guaranteed, now that is history. Surely we need to engage with pro-lifers, not just run away.

Exactly. If you're too scared to engage with debate and argue for your views when it matters then you're no real use to your movement at all. You might as well be on the other side for all the good you are doing.

Going along to an event in support of them

What is your understanding of what a 'conference' is?

I'd like to see any feminist who would say they'd be happy to picket at an abortion clinic or protest their existence.

Saying you respect personal beliefs of people who don't morally agree with abortion is again, a thousand miles away from collaborating in any way with a group who seeks to remove the choice and therefore a woman's bodily autonomy.

I can't believe I'm even having this conversation on a feminist board.

Where have you got the impression that this event in support of anti-abortionists, dreamwhisper? It's an event to discuss education. It's not in support of any of the groups that are organising it.

And gay rights do affect gay women?

It's not to discuss education, it was to discuss "cancel culture"

I think you really need to clarify what you think this event is for, Dreamwhisper.

Do you think that the person debating Kathleen Stock here is 'allying' with her?

You're doing it again. "Collaborating" "supporting". By your logic, they would also be collaborating with and supporting you. Rather than groups and people simply sharing space to discuss ideas and find points of agreement.

Okay, cancel culture. Why do you think that it's an event about supporting anti-abortion campaigns rather than an event to discuss cancel culture?

And okay, even if you believe it was to in good faith discuss "education", it is sponsored by those groups. It's hardly an unbiased event designed to create debate, it's to discuss topics from an agenda set out by the sponsors.

If it were a debate it would have been advertised as such. There are no opposing view points there.