Is it okay to work with groups whose principles you dont share as a feminist, but there is a common cause?

[IwantToRetire]

Education not indoctrination
The events was organised by a coalition of groups including the Christian Institute, which opposes abortion, same-sex marriage and euthanasia, Stand By Me Scotland, which opposed the wearing of facemasks in schools during the pandemic, Academics for Academic Freedom and For Women Scotland, which opposes Scottish government plans for people to be able to self-identify their legal gender.
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/education-not-indoctrination-tickets-426737442177

Glasgow venue cancels booking for cancel culture conference
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/04e3fa4a-6696-11ed-9c3b-2d9184d0076f?shareToken=4ffe4f56d755905a476b686c75b65dd0&fbclid=IwAR1UHupPu9Xu4bD_gF0JoJb0A9u-bE2RDTcRqmbt9c8bpRUird9JTGbG8o8

What do you mean? What 'anti trans' stuff are you talking about? Please give some examples because you're not really making any sense.

Stop with the bullshit whataboutery. This event is directly about political ideas that go against every principle of womens' rights. It's not a bake sale with some Christian pro lifers attending.

Ah here it is, the "I don't understaaaaaaaand".

If you want to add your voice to the chorus of pro life organisations, or anti same sex marriage advocates, then you do you. I will not under any circumstances be joining you.

So no audience with the Pope for you.

Discussing ideas, or attending an event about those ideas, is not the same as aligning yourself with those ideas.

But in this case, the event is about education, which lots of people have an interest in. Is it aligning yourself with a particular group to discuss education? Does that mean that all mothers are aligned with the Family Party because we are all interested in talking about education?

Well that's just pathetic. If you can't back up your points with reason, logic or evidence, then all you're doing is wailing like this, and it's honestly a waste of everyone's time.

If an event is organised to discuss issues, especially issues where there is strong disagreement, how the fuck is it going to actually achieve anything useful if it deliberately excludes certain views or groups?

A conference to 'discuss' education if it refuses certain people entry based on their views or politics isn't really a conference, is it? It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions.

It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions

The irony

So dreamwhisper, you (wrongly) consider this to be an anti-trans board. By coming here to discuss issues, aren't you aligning yourself with the board, and therefore giving support to what you call 'anti trans' views?

That's your argument about women attending the proposed event. So does it also apply to you? You've allied yourself to us by being here.

But the whole point of the thread is, is it okay to "work with" groups who you disagree with in order to further a common goal.

Please don't pretend that this is a discussion about going to such an event to beat down the anti women views that would be shared. I would not attend an event where my very attendance even could be seen as support for and platforming of such views. Nobody can justify prohibiting womens' choices over abortion and same sex marriage to me.

Say what you want, it is disingenuous to pretend that was the topic of the thread. I and other posters expressed that we would absolutely not in any way associate with these groups for those reasons. I have nothing more to say on the matter.

You're here arguing that everyone on this board has the same views?

This place is such an interesting phenomenon.

Absolutely, watching the frogs being boiled so slowly in here over the last few years has been an education.

It looks as though it is organised by a range of groups, not one group.

I probably wouldn’t, say, attend an event organised by Mermaids, for example, even if they had someone from a GC perspective on the panel - I would presume it was a stitch-up.

However, if I saw an event organised by groups working together including Mermaids and others I trusted like FWS, etc and it was chaired by someone I believed to be fair and balanced - I’d go along. Sure, I’d think (weird?), but I would imagine there was a good intention to be cooperative and solution-focussed.

I find your position very intolerant MyLovelyPen of others’ religious beliefs.

It just becomes a circle of people with the same views reinforcing each others' opinions

@Dreamwhisper What is the definition of 'trans', and why should trans rights supersede safeguarding, or women's sex based rights?

I would not attend an event where my very attendance even could be seen as support for and platforming of such views.

Your attendance here could easily be seen as support for and platforming of gender critical views. And yet you're here. Which tells me on some level you know your argument is specious.

Regardless, it's your choice where you go and who you speak to. If other women make a different choice, it's none of your business. I'd be happy to go to this event and hear what everyone has to say. It sounds really interesting.

I and other posters expressed that we would absolutely not in any way associate with these groups for those reasons.

Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back.

Absolutely not the case at all. I find it ironic you would think that since there is so much bad faith on this thread, at complete odds with what it is actually about.

I am signed up to a large parenting forum, of which one aspect is the FWR board. I have a proven track record of my beliefs on here, which is very clear and in fact the only way to see my involvement with these threads. I have no real life association with mumsnet's FWR board and as said, if anyone did want to know about my presence, the only way you would be able to do this is to collate my posts and see what they say.

My body being in that hall attending that event is in no way an indication of how I think or feel. I could be there supporting, and anyone looking at any data wouldn't be able to know what I was doing there.

And again, the point of the thread was "would you work with these groups". Categorically no should be any feminists answer, surely?

And again, the point of the thread was "would you work with these groups". Categorically no should be any feminists answer, surely?

Define “work with”.

That's literally not relevant is it? Please don't derail the thread. There are 10,000 threads on FWR about what "trans" is.

I think you're fooling yourself if you believe that your contributing to this board can't be interpreted as support and alignment by the very same logic you use to decry women attending the event raised in the OP.

I would attend the event, yes.

Would I 'work with' any of the groups involved? Depends very much on what the work involved and whether I thought I had an effective contribution to make.

Why don't you define it?

If you're saying it's okay to align yourself in any way with groups like these, how about you explain why it's okay to you?

I've already outlined my views about why I wouldn't want to associate in any way and explained clearly that I feel association extends to attending these events. if you don't agree, why don't you explain yourself?

I will, I am proud of rejecting any association with literal anti abortion and anti gay marriage advocates, thanks.

I did myself feel that was more the bare minimum of being a feminist or even woman who wanted to retain her rights but I guess not these days?

you're fooling yourself if you believe that your contributing to this board can't be interpreted as support and alignment by the very same logic you use

It is so true. There seems to be a well-trodden path for TAs and anti-feminists to try to undermine women’s efforts.

This deliberate fudging of the meanings of “be seen with”, “work with”, “be in the same location as”, “fund”, “mention”, “not openly denounce”, “support”, “converse with”, “listen to”, “be polite towards”, “follow the directives of”, “be discussed in the same sentence as”, “adopt the policies of”, “appear in a photograph with”, etc.

It is scaremongering to get us treading on eggshells. Oooh…. Scary, scary…. Didn’t you know you are doing something forbidden? ☠️Ooo… unless you openly denounce that person, organisation, thing, everyone will think you are completely intertwined with them and it will follow you around for ever more… ooo👻

😂 It really is pathetic.
I don’t think anyone is “anti- trans.”
Wanting to protect the rights, safety, dignity and privacy of women and girls (i.e females) is not anti anything. Grow up.

Are you actually serious? The woman saying she's not comfortable attending events to hear views from anti abortion and anti same sex marriage groups is the anti-feminist?

Please take a look at yourself. You are spouting absolute nonsense and you're going to do yourself some serious bodily harm with those mental gymnastics 😂