Julie Hesmondhalgh, who played Hayley Cropper on Coronation Street, wouldn't take the role today as she's 'cis-gender'

[daringdoris]

Just listening to her on Radio 4's Front Row now.

She also decribes herself a left-wing intersectional feminist.

She's drunk the cool-aid though, the section of the book she's written (why she's on Front Row this evening) that she chooses to read out is about how fond she is of her daughters when they tell her off for mis-gendering someone.

I know, it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but as an avid Radio 4 listener, it would be nice to hear some balance every now and then, not just this unquestioning 'be kind' attitude whenever this comes up.

is she 'making up for' having played that role because she feels guilty about it?

listen here, 1st section

'cis-gender' is a quote from her, btw!

Her views aren't unusual. Tbh many of us would say it was deliberate to cast a woman in that role at that time rather than a male person, and would agree with her from a different angle.

Middle-aged people grovelling to their kids to tell them what to think is one of the weirdest parts of all this to me.

I have teenagers. I love them, but I know more about the world and about people than they do.

But isn't that the point of acting - that you can act different roles?

Had a man been cast as Hayley all those years ago I wonder if people would be less sympathetic to the trans oppression olympics.

It’s not just Coronation Street that’s guilty of this, over the years there have been many shows that have shoehorned in a trans storyline, often with TW played by women, and very much portray them as wonderful people and anyone questioning pronouns/bonkers beliefs being treated as idiotic backward bigots.

We’ve been fed this line for years.

Had a man been cast as Hayley all those years ago I wonder if people would be less sympathetic to the trans oppression olympics.

Not necessarily. I've been more impressed by the instances I've seen of males (men and transwomen) playing transwomen than by the unconvincing women doing so.

If a woman can't play a transwoman, it sounds like Julie is saying that transwomen aren't actually women.

Yes, but attempts to play the opposite sex are rarely successful,

I think all transwomen roles should be played by transwomen, it would be most illuminating.

Let’s be honest, if a transwoman had played the role of Hayley Cropper, the script writers would have had to totally rethink the early days storyline where Hayley revealed they were a transwoman and everyone was completely shocked because they had absolutely no idea.

Surely it's not surprising that someone who...

• Semi-unintentionally, became a public face of trans identities (Hayley Cropper was the first trans character in a major UK soap)
• Following backlash about her casting and the show's portrayal, joined as a patron of a group aimed at better representation of trans people on TV
• Won acclaim for her sensitivity and care in her portrayal of a trans character
• Has been a vocal supporter of trans people for years

...would have these views?

And, given that she literally works as a patron for a body which aims to offer better representation of trans people in TV and personally received feedback that trans people want trans characters to be played by trans people, she might feel she agrees with their views.

If you want the BBC to feature people who don't agree with her that's fine but it seems weird that you'd act like she's all of a sudden decided to give a shit about her casting as some sort of trend when she said the same in an interview 5 years ago.

Ah yes, good point.

True, I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of gay parts/actors. A gay actor recently said his career would have been very limited if he had only taken gay roles.

it seems weird that you'd act like she's all of a sudden decided to give a shit about her casting as some sort of trend when she said the same in an interview 5 years ago.
It's the first time I've heard an interview with her, so all I knew about her was that she'd played this role and had no idea what she'd previously said about it/whether she gave a shit about her casting/whether she's the patron of a group or not.

I was just pointing something out that I'd heard on the radio which I found thought provoking.
I do think it's interesting how different people react to things like this, especially people in the public eye, and when it's a subject they've had years to ponder. I know my opionions have shifted on a few different subjects in the last 5 years (and so have a lot of people's, given the recent 'what have you been wrong about?' thread).

I don't want to inflict my evening's radio listening to you, but the programme following Front Row this evening was 'Life Changing' - the story of Aderonke Apata who had to escape Nigeria for the 'crime' of loving another woman. Her girlfriend was killed. I know this is said a lot - but could they have identified out of that?
Love and the Law

the early days storyline where Hayley revealed they were a transwoman and everyone was completely shocked because they had absolutely no idea

Did anyone watch it? Did you think it was realistic?

I didn't listen but to be fair, I think it's quite reasonable to say that today, a transwoman character would not be played by a woman.

At the time, the concept of trans-anything was barely understood, certainly the terminology wasn't used in Coronation Street; it was all 'Hayley used to be a man'. From recollection, it was well done & the nuances of Roy & Hayley's relationship well-drawn.

Obviously the whole situation is completely different now; the way in which the trans agenda has been advanced is completely problematic; it was of its time

Does she believe trans women are women? In which case why not have a woman play it.

Follow the money.is she selling something?

Yes. This.

Thanks EarringsandLipstick.

Follow the money.is she selling something?

Yes, Mumda, she's just written a book...

I think that she is saying that a trans woman should have played the part. However all of the research, information and guidance was indeed provided by Annie Wallace throughout Hayley's trans storylines.

@GordonShakespearedoesChristmas But if transwomen are women (as they claim) then she is just a woman playing a woman. I would have thought that a transwoman who truly believes they are an actual woman wouldn't bat an eyelid at whether a TW character is played by a TW or a 'cis' woman. After all, we're all the same, aren't we? Oh, oh, wait a minute...

It's all such utter fucking bollocks.

She claimed in the interview that she thought the role of Hayley should have been given to a trans woman back in the nineties - decades before the debate reached the mainstream - but she was worried that person would get too much flack/abuse so nobly decided to take the role herself. I mean… maybe that’s true but it seems unlikely to me. The considerations and debate about actors without ‘lived experience’ was hardly rife then. It struck me as a retrospective pardoning and a bit hollow.

Eddie wasn’t available, so that had to get a cis woman ( sic)

or maybe the illusion wouldn’t have been sustainable? Willing suspension of disbelief is one thing, that would be quite another.

Yes, that’s the point….?

She’s saying a transwoman should have played the part.

Because transwomen are different from women.

Therefore transwomen are not women.

I heard this interview on r4 tonight, and rarely have I heard a front row guest be really quite as up their own arse as this. From the initial salvo about immediately closing all private schools, (with no thought as to the ramifications for children attending them) she then managed to simultaneously explain what an honour it was to play the trans character whilst also saying that she doesn't think a cis(shudder) woman should play the part of a transwoman now. She didn't seem to have the self reflection to see the problem with this statement.