It totally did not wander off topic

[WallaceinAnderland]

It was bang on topic the whole way through.

I missed the terrible advice. What was it so i (and others) know to avoid it in future.

Give us an example?

Yes, I would like to know what the terrible advice was too.

Another one here asking why the discussion was so terrible that some people felt it had to be obliterated. I just saw women having a discussion about an issue that affects women and children.

I don’t like that the thread was deleted. I saw no ‘off topic’ comments and it was supportive of the debate about whether we ‘have’ to conform to pronouns or not. I for was one was confused about what we would ‘get in trouble’ for - say at work - if I really felt uncomfortable about calling a biological man a she, even if they wanted it. It’s a really important topic I would say. What I didn’t realise was that mumsnet would judge this to be ‘not OK to debate’ and ‘get in trouble’ means we are not allowed to talk about this?

I feel bad for the poster whose 12 year old daughter was yelled at by a mom of a they/them for forgetting to use they/them as demanded. Adults yelling at your child because she subconsciously uses the English language as intended seems like a MN topic. AIBU that an adult yelled at my kid?

I was also very keen to talk about this as I have DS who has only begun to learn language (delayed) and took a long time to get pronouns at all, he needs things to be concrete and fuzziness stresses him, in short it would be quite difficult and confusing for him to be told that there some truths like biological sex are to be ignored - and a safeguarding issue.

So, it’s quite important I think to be clear - what if when he is older and at work? What about in school? Does he have to follow gender ideology or be disciplined?

Yes, Secretusername3.

If we get deleted and obliterated on this discussion on Mumsnet - then what are our chances out there in our world of work?

In case Mumsnet forgot, Maya Forstater won her case.

The Employment Appeal Tribunal substituted a finding that gender-critical beliefs are a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. Those who hold such beliefs are now legally protected from discrimination and harassment in employment and as service users.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/gender-critical-beliefs-are-worthy-of-respect-in-a-democratic-society/

(gives further and full references).

We are not the only ones discussing this. It really does not need to be censored.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/civil-servants-fight-back-to-defend-binary-biological-sex/ar-AA142dWU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6f1b3529303648c0a952ede4f3b77ccd

Telegraph article.

A genderbread diagram of 100 identities?

Also, is it just me but what is a mandarin?!

So who are Mumsnet employing as Moderators tonight, that they have the power to delete a very informative and productive thread on women's rights?

It was a lively thread. I read four pages of it, and then clicked on the fifth page, but it told me Mumsnet had cancelled it.

I have no idea. A typo? Not very professional.

“We think it’s important not to confuse sex with gender identity because confusion undermines our ability to protect everyone’s rights.”

Well quite

1. COUNTABLE NOUN

Journalists sometimes use mandarin to refer to someone who has an important job in the Civil Service. www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mandarin

Aka a bureaucrat.

Thanks for that, I never knew that.

It was an interesting if bonkers article - it was like reading an alternate strange future where a new religion have taken hold but it really does exist.

Oh my I have just googled ‘Genderbread’

It is an actual thing. WTF?!

It is a gingerbread man used as a ‘teaching tool’ to break down understanding gender identity. Identity if ‘the brain’. Sex is apparently not located in the brain… it is only in the genital region. Attraction is ‘the heart’.

And apparently all are on a spectrum so you can have all sorts of combinations, from this gingerbread. From. From 0 to 100.

I really don’t buy any of that. It chucks away most of science for a start and is just a pseudo belief system around an edible biscuit.

Sorry… I just realised… gingerbread… person?!

@Secretusername3 whom are they teaching with that model? Certainly hope it's not kids!

Of course it's kids - they use a similar "gender unicorn", too. These ideologues really need to be kept out of schools.

Forgot the link: go2tutors.com/gender-unicorn/

The gist was; a business cannot compel speech and for the OP to avoid the bearded (yes!) bloke who wanted to be called by she/her pronouns. And to use the person's name instead.
We pretty much agreed this is a prime example of coercive control; a male forcing females to deny reality.
Lucy Hunter Blackburn just wrote about this.

A Whitehall mandarin is a senior civil servant who advises government. Like Sir Humphrey for those old enough to remember Yes Minister

That's horrendous.
How did we get to this place where children's education and development is diverted so blatantly to serve a niche paraphilia?
If anyone had said a few years back that encouraging small boys to wear drag or young girls to take testosterone would be a thing, most of us (including a good number of people with gender dysphoria, no doubt) would have been totally horrified.

Robust discussion for all!
not that discussion.