Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

[nauticant]

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

It’s possibly easier to prove that 21% = 93% than that male = female.

If it would help, I can prove that 1=2. and we can go from there.

In the US for example, transitioning pays more than the entertainment industry
I hope unscrupulous individuals wouldn't see gold in them there hills

As for this country, who can say?

How about I + I = 🪟 (a window).

• it covers the numbers, and highlights the Transparent (visibility) mentioned above…

I swear I'm not stalking you around the board, honestly. But can I ask a question...
transparent day is that like a day for parents of trans people or a day for people who are trans and parents our is it the old fashioned meaning of transparent ie being able to see through it?

I'm soooooooo confused

I'm not sure, faircop was complaining about a Police Force tweeting about it but the coppers had deleted their tweet. I think it's about Trans people who are parents, before or after transitioning, I don't know.
That window emoji would make a flag. Although that invisibility cloak from HP would be funnier.
@Boiledbeetle I spent a few hours in Wales a couple of weekends ago and I'm still getting MN ads. in Welsh. Completely irrelevant, but this what you get for stalking me! Just got a helpful bilingual one, the home of Welsh football, so it's not just random letters (sorry Welsh). Gallwch chi stopio'r bloc....? No idea.

I didn't even take this tablet with me.

@IcakethereforeIam

So a word that used to mean clear/see through basically could mean anything these days, who knows!

Bydda i'n stopio eich stelcian chi nawr. Nid fy mod i ond os oeddwn i'n stopio nawr

I've always been curious why welsh needed loanwords for stop and private.

If that's all your own work, I'm impressed, or you're Welsh and I should think so!

Yes indeed

Apologies for the derail, but I was very disappointed when I found out that popty ping wasn't actually the Welsh for microwave. Still, there are other genuine great Welsh words and phrases:
www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/24-welsh-words-phrases-just-6387661

Yes clog marg has been corrected numerous times I believe.

Definitely a lot of help from Google Cake😶

Google Cake sounds tasty. Maybe when we need a recipe thread!

@picklemewalnuts 😁🍰

I've been told that a Welshism for jellyfish is pysgod wibli wobli, which can't be right because 'w' isn't pronounced like that, but still

Smoothio for ironing soothes my soul! Perhaps I should say 'smoothes my soul'!

I've been told that a Welshism for jellyfish is pysgod wibli wobli, which can't be right because 'w' isn't pronounced like that, but still

Probably better to use in front of children than one of the alternatives - cont fôr (cunt of the sea).

No way!!

It’s true! One variant.

Well the charity commission approved the incorporation of the LGBA as a charity and they are being challenged that that was the wrong decision. So defending the decision is not (from their point of view) taking the LGBA side. Which is to say the same rules apply to both (all) charities and different points of view are totally ok it isn't their job to decide who is more right or more wrong.

I've never needed to accuse anyone of being a real jellyfish! Unless it's praise? I'm clearly not meeting enough welshmen!

I wonder if the tribunal does rule that Mermaids doesn't have standing, it will make an orbiter (unbinding) ruling on the substantive issue of whether LGBA's purposes are charitable. Lots of courts do this where there is public interest in an issue in a case but where technically it does not need to make a ruling on that issue. While not binding it would be highly persuasive and indicate how another court would be likely to rule on that substantive issue.

The Telegraph's take on today's proceedings

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/08/mermaids-attempt-shut-gay-charity-profoundly-homophobic-tribunal/

From the telegraph article

"Michael Gibbon KC, representing Mermaids, denied any accusation of homophobia. He told the court that LGB Alliance were seeking to undermine trans charities like Mermaids “by promoting the view that they spread disinformation, and by seeking to deprive them of funding”.

erm....aren't Mermaids doing a mighty fine job of depriving themselves of funding lately. No need for any help on that matter from other charities.

I still can't for the life of me work out why??? Mermaids thought this case was a good idea. I mean are they so so soooooooo removed from reality that they think they are God or something?

rhetorical question by the way. Unless anyone has really funny witty answers as to what they are playing at.

Phew, just caught up! Thank you to everyone who posted the proceedings on here 🙂