Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 4

[nauticant]

UPDATE: a transcript of the proceedings has been published and can be found here: lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony was heard from 12 to 15 September, and then, following a break, closing submissions are taking place on 7 and 8 November.

[This paragraph is probaby now redundant] To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from www.twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4633653-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chamber-thread-3?page=31&reply=121335177
Thread 4: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

www.lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request in order to include the most up to date information.

Discussion about whether trans people could use LGBA service.

I think it was more pointed in that if a man who stated they were a lesbian, phoned the helpline asking for help, would they be allowed to use the service.

The question was about "a lesbian with a penis" wanting to use the service which was answered that LGBA would be interested in their world view rather than the nature of the person, but of course in this case "a lesbian with a penis" is by definition going to have an incompatible world view.

What was the answer?

Oh Sorry, cross posted, thanks nauticant

Charities Act - there is a scheme for making objections. Registration and removed largely together. A person who may be affected by a charity may apply to the CC for it to be removed. Whether to de-register or remove are treated the same. No distinction drawn between them and no basis for a different approach to be made.

HUV THEY WON YET

@Datun
no answer as it has not been brought up by either MM Counsel or LGBA.

I would imagine if that scenario happened, they would just direct them to a more appropriate help ie stonewall/gendered intelligence etc.

I doubt they would just slam the phone down.

Can people of colour use the KKK?

Can chickens use KFC?

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

Oh it's maddening. By being a man he self-excludes from the group of 'lesbian'. This service is not for him. Other services are available.

Look, is that the sky on the ground again? No, it's still up in the air as usual. Ffs!

LGBA do have trans identified persons in their user base.

Do the KKK provide a service to be used?

That is what I would have thought would happen but doesn't say anything on TT. Such a person is heterosexual.
The LGBA do have many trans supporters, though

I expect transwomen attracted to men, and transmen attracted to women, would be welcomed?

Do the KKK provide a service to be used?

Yes, they provide stawmaning services in bogus arguments.

Claim that LGBA activities impede MM by seeking to undermine MM charitable activities.

That is not one of LGBA's objects. MM would have to prove.

Oh yeah, they have a freephone number to call in times of KKK-related emergencies. 🙄

Marg -is clutching at straws again

Financial loss is such a shit argument.

MM claim they might suffer financial loss by sharing donations.

KM - They have no legal right to not share donations.

(paraphrased)

Being upset is also a shit argument in regards to standing

Very good. Surely they'd have to prove and quantify loss too?

Can chickens use KFC?

Do chickens have the ability to access KFC and purchase food?

Honestly @MargaritaPie you really are plumbing the deep, deep depths of absurdity now.

The answer might be a yes but a better question might be would it be in their best interest to do so.

Leave it to the people who know what they are doing and talking about to decide this.

LGB - the love that cannot say it's name

Beautifully put, i think.

Did he just say playfair for women?