Why 'Cis' is unnecessary

[TerfranosaurusVagina]

What a stonking explanation by @jeaux90. Perfectly put. I thought it deserved its own thread as its so succinct.

Women don't need a prefix, Cis is like needing a word for someone who doesn't collect stamps.

Women and transwomen are mutually exclusive groups. There's no such thing as a male woman.

You miss the point. The assumption is Woman = Adult human female.

Cis shouldn't exist, like a word doesn't exist for someone who doesn't collect stamps.

Trans = Stamp collector/Philatelist

Women don't need a prefix, Cis is like needing a word for someone who doesn't collect stamps.

Physicist is the word for someone who doesn’t collect stamps.

<I’ll get me coat>

Have you actually read the OP?

@JellySaurus

I'm sorry, what?

I think you might think I'm making a different point to the one I am...

Can you clarify what it is you think I'm saying? Because I've no idea what you mean by "force teaming" or why you think I'm being disingenuous.

@YouSirNeighMmmm
Excellent!! I'm going to do that too!

Hi Grombles. I think you were saying that we can't get rid of the word 'cis' because that means we'd also have to get rid of 'trans' and then there'd be no way to distinguish between female and male women?

The point is that 'cis' turns women (females) into a subset of women, alongside trans (males). But women are by definition female, and 'female women' aren't a subset of their own sex. Getting rid of 'cis' makes it more clear that transwomen aren't part of the 'women' group.

It would be nice if labelling someone cis could be seen as offensive as " misgendering" is perceived to be.

It should be seen as equally offensive to re label people in.ideologies they don't believe in.

And call me.petty but part of me thinks it would be an Interesting experiment to take away all the privileges modern day western women enjoy like driving, bank.accounts, jobs etc gained at the hands of our sisters who fought tirelessly for our rights that we have now, from women who believe in all this cis stuff, until they realise that identifying as a man doesn't get any of it back and it dawns on them that woman.is not an identity but a reality none if us can escape from.

I think a couple of posters somehow missed the I think some people want us to be ... in GromblesofGrimbledon's post - those other people are the forced-teamers/appropriators not her!

@NotTerfNorCis
@JellySaurus

I think the term "cis" is bullshit of the highest order. I rarely get time to post on the boards these days but I've been here a long time under one name or another. I get it. Very much been there, done that.

I'm making the point that we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Piss enough women off with the word "cis" and then the argument can be made, "you're right actually, people who are what they say they are don't need a marker. Let's dispense with "trans" too because women are simply those who say they are women."

The end goal is for transwomen to simply be called "women".

Yep. The 'trans' in 'trans woman' plays a very similar function to the 'rocking' in 'rocking horse'.

Fa afafine from Samoa were males who dressed as women a bit like a cultural transvestite in some cases they were supposedly co-opted to this role by their families who were in need of more girls/women to do the domestic chores.

The above knowledge was from growing up in Aotearoa and having a lot of Samoan friends.

Stella O Malley and Sasha Ayad did a really fascinating podcast on this…

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-Ry_XHk1k

I couldn't remember either of the names (hajira or fa'afafine) but I knew the absolute inappropriateness of elements of these cultures being co-opted by Western tras especially as a kind of 'gotcha' against people who don't buy into the gi faith.

I don't know anything about this Samoan thing but I suppose I'm a little cynical about it... I know that a huge number of Samoan rugby players have refused to wear pride symbols etc because of extreme Bible-bashing type beliefs, I can't help but wonder if this identity thing might just be a way of trying to legitimise homosexuality in the face of what's otherwise very serious discrimination? But either way, it seems preferable to our trans ideology in at least one respect, namely that there's no pretence that the men who do this thing are indistinguishable from/in all material respects the same as women.

That's a polite explanation, op. There is also the No, Thank You option. And the Fuck Off option. I'm currently only using the latter silently.

Who cares?

Just a quick point. Have you go any evidence whatsoever to back up your assertion that "in the West where [trans] individuals believe they are the opposite sex"? Some trans women claim to be women, but not all. Do many literally claim to be the opposite sex, and if they do what evidence can you provide that they are being honest when they make the claim?

I’ll never accept being called “Cis”. It hurts my feelings so please don’t or I may “cancel” you 😉I am a woman …. end of.
Talking of labelling of groups , Lesbians are proud to be called that and Gay men also as far as I’m aware , and rightly so IMHO
Why aren’t Trans women or Trans men proud to be called just that? Be proud of your differences !

It seems to be the case that due to increased homophobia and the denial of homosexuality as a thing by homophobic hate groups like Stonewall, increasing number of the L and G refuse to self-identify as such, with young lesbians the most put-upon group (oh, what a surprise!)

The trans community seems to be somewhat conflicted between "authentically" living your life as the one thing that you are categorically not, and being "stealth". It must be incredibly difficult to be constantly pulled towards the viewpoint that you are special, unlike the boring cis people, whilst also wanting the world to treat you as if you were the opposite sex, ideally because it has failed to notice you as trans.

Cis is a form of language creep to undermine and remove power from women. The concept is to 'remove priviledge' from women by suggesting the have priviledge. In reality women do not have priviledge over males. So this is a male supremecy movement. This is best highlights when you get the use of 'cis women and women' which suggests that those who are trans are the default.

Cis is an affront to women for this reason, as its about removing more power from women, when we already have an inequality of power.

I think the use of the term ‘Cis’ is an attempt to ‘other’ women and treat us a a subset of our own sex. I have seen some tras attempt to say that they are ‘women’ and we are not.

I find it incredibly offensive and if anyway attempted to use that term with me, they would regret it.

It's not succeeded despite years of trying to push and normalise that arse of a word. You still have half the population going 'you what now?' and the other half split between 'I embrace my role as a male enabler!' and 'fuck off right now'.

Hasn't caught on. Is rapidly moving towards the gangnam style dance cupboard of 'things briefly thought to be trendy'.

@ReunitedThorns
I don't use the term "cis", just like I don't use the term to say that I don't have six fingers.

I like this one too.
Imagine if we had to use a term for everything that we are not!

When you are specifically discussing transgender issues, having a word for people who are not trans is essential.