New Minister for Women - Maria Caulfield - is pro life.

[ArabellaScott]

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/anger-as-mp-who-suggested-cutting-abortion-time-limit-is-made-minister-for-women/ar-AA13vIjr?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=af0ca7de70284591967a666f2eeebfad

'The Lewes MP has previously come under fire for arguing babies born at as little as 18 weeks “grow up to live long, healthy lives like the rest of us”,'

I thought it was Women & Equalities, has that changed?

What PerkingFaintly is reporting is interesting information and I would agree that it’s not a bad idea to keep a close eye on transnational activist networks and lobbying as both seem to be able to exert significant influence.

Thanks, Perking. In Scotland the SNP failed to get on with the buffer zone legislation, despite being asked repeatedly. (A Green MSP brought it to the parliament eventually).

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/buffer-zones-scotland-gillian-mackay-commits-to-implementing-anti-abortion-buffer-zone-legislation-as-soon-as-possible-after-nicola-sturgeon-support-3838777

More info:

bpas-campaigns.org/campaigns/buffer-zones-scotland/
www.gov.scot/groups/ministerial-working-group---abortion-buffer-zones/

There are murmurs the SNP kept it as arms-length because they didn't want to lose the Christian vote; I don't know how accurate those murmurs were/are.

And yes, here is a US group getting involved (why?!) in the Scottish discussion:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63033402

'A US anti-abortion campaign group has said it will help mount a legal challenge if a law to implement buffer zones is passed in Scotland.

Texas-based 40 Days for Life is already active outside clinics and hospitals in Scotland.'

What is the difference between a talking point and making something a thing?

Pregnant Women's bodily autonomy is under threat. As are UK Women's rights across the board. What with the sun setting on the Sunset clause and all.

What does it benefit women to have a Women's minister who centres the voice of the unborn🙄 rather than women?

Just to point out the Caulfield is not the Minister for Women. She is Undersecretary (which is think is two steps down from a Minister) in 2 different departments. One Health, one trade.

In Health she has specific responsibility amongst other things for Women's Health and Mental Health, but if I have read the .gov page correctly has been demoted as was previously Minister of State for Health (a Truss appointee?).

Also of interest she have responsibility for Gender ID services.

But presumably as an under secretary she reports to her Ministers, so maybe not a worry, but then given her views how did she even get these Under Secretary Roles. This thread from Anneliese Dodds has some interesting facts about the current Cabinet's votes on abortion issues. twitter.com/AnnelieseDodds/status/1588863009103155201 which might explain it.

Although the thread did prompt this response "You are giving away women's sex based rights. You are in no position to occupy the moral high ground."

40 Days for Life has been active in the UK for decades and in the past women's groups used to organise counter demos.

So it isn't that some US tide of evangelicals is coming to the UK, but that we seem to have lost interest in counter protesting.

Sorry meant to include this link about the Tory party failure to stand up for abortion rights. Does anyone remember this from July?

Abortion deleted from UK Government-organised international human rights statement humanists.uk/2022/07/19/abortion-deleted-from-uk-government-organised-international-human-rights-statement/

I find "pro-life" a deeply frustrating expression. However my own preferred term-"forced birther"- doesn't go down well.

The abortion clinic in Glasgow had specifically requested no counter protests, as this would risk setting up a barney outside that wouldn't help anyone. I think buffer zones are a better idea, tbh - if there are to be protests and counter protests they should be held on neutral ground - parliament, etc.

So how does that work for a 32 week abortion if the women’s not ‘forced’ to give birth? It doesn’t get magically reabsorbed. Your term doesn’t make sense.

Stand corrected. Tired because of posting late at night. Quite right after a period of counter prostests clinics did request that people didn't set them us as it made it even more distressing for women attending.

Maybe we need to think a useful way to counter protest, say in the centre of the town or city, by leafleting to let people know the intimidation that is being organised.

Frankly it doesnt work at 8 weeks either. It's still birth, with the exception of surgical abortions (not late term ones), a pregnancy always ends in a birth, whether vaginal or a c section.

Or perhaps at the churches where the protestors are coming from? Direct to the source.

Wonder how they would react to a picket line as they went to morning service or evening mass, and we all said we are here out of kindness to save you!

Oh good lord, can you imagine the shitstorm of martyrdom that would follow if we did that?

"Christians are being persecuted! Persecuted! It's a War on Christianity by <insert bogeyman here>."

For activists of a certain stripe it would be like all their Christmasses had come at once – including for many who weren't necessarily anti-abortion in the first place but would never miss a good bit of fake martyrdom.

And TBF, I suspect it might genuinely be into dodgy legal territory re interfering with freedom of religion.

I think ArabellaScott has it right, ditto Sturgeon in that BBC story linked above, that protests belong outside parliament, not outside clinics. And also not outside churches.

I'd be surprised if the abortion laws in this country changed. I think they are fair, reasonable and liberal. Like many women, I consider abortion to be a necessary right but morally it's complex. There's not much appetite to either make the laws more restrictive or more liberal, I'd have thought. I feel like in the UK this is one thing that we've managed to get just about right.

I suppose we can always fuck it up.

"Christians are being persecuted! Persecuted! It's a War on Christianity by ."

Christian ARE persecuted. Being a Christian is a death sentence in many countries around the globe.

www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2022/01/20/one-in-seven-christian-minorities-under-threat-in-2022/

And this relates to Christians who demand that British women be prevented from terminating pregnancies... how?

Tory PM Sunak has been meeting with forced birthers disability rights campaigners who want to reduce Women's rights to abortion in the UK.

I suppose we can always fuck it up.

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst.

+1

Freedom of belief and religion.

Indeed. Let’s call pro-choice what it is: pro- murder, pro-discrimination, pro-racism, pro-classism.

don’t make the mistake in thinking pro lifers are unqualified in having experience in abortion, especially first hand. It’s usually what makes them pro life.

Christians do not demand the absence of choice. We believe freedom of choice is God-given. We just don’t condone murder. Simple as that.

I’m strongly ‘pro-life’ but I’m ‘pro-choice’ even more. It’s a dumb and divisive dichotomy.