JK Rowling - beginner's guide

[SpookyPanda]

Hi was wondering if anyone had a link to a beginners guide to the whole jkrowling thing? From either/Both sides. I just need a simple summary really. Someone at work was chatting about it and she was getting into quite some detail but I couldn't follow it.

Thanks for asking this! Very helpful informative thread.

Hello, I have watched the video now and once I got past the first 15 minutes it did get a bit better.

It struck me that they said that most transgender people accept there is a difference between them and "cis" gender (sorry I know many people hate that term). So then that then threw me as I thought one of the main causes of upset was the "Transwomen are Women". They explained that this was becuase transwomen wad a type of woman.

Basically I'm no clearer to making up my mind on any of this! But it has got my cogs wirring so thanks.

Still not 100% sure what she said that was deemed so offensive she's been cancelled etc so might watch again at some point. Both view points seemed reasonable to me so I'm missing something.

Tw are a type of gender non conforming (although that doesn't seem to be absolutely necessary) man.

They face some of the same issues as sex & gender matching women though- they used the example of catcalling so if people perceive them as women then isn't that all that matters? The whole sport debate makes me think the other way though.

What you missing is firstly, no man is a type of woman. But even if you were to accommodate that, they don't want rights on the basis of that. They want rights on the basis of actual women.

Many women are more than happy to acknowledge a third space for this 'different type of woman', let's call them a transwoman. But that's not what is being asked.

When they talk about a type of woman, they mean like a blonde woman, or a tall woman. But there is no 'type' of woman that is a man.

So it's a useless description. Even if it was accepted.

And the thing you have to remember is it is women who are being exploited here. Men identifying as women want to occupy women's spaces, but only on the condition that there are women in there to access.

If all the women get up and walk away to a different space, the original space is no longer acceptable. The women's presence is crucial.

Because this isn't about spaces, otherwise third spaces would be acceptable. This is about validation.

And it is the presence of women and girls whether undressing, going to the toilet, or talking about their rape, that is crucial for that validation.

And, the more inappropriate the presence of a man is, the more intense is the validation.

Hence places like rape refuges, breastfeeding groups, stillbirth support organisations being targeted. Where the presence of men is obviously completely inappropriate.

If you can make women accept you there, the validation is 100%, and every other place just follows suit.

Ask a transactivist if they will accept a third space. Based on the fact they are a type of woman, it can be a 'type of woman' space.

The answer is always no.

Men can get raped and sexually abused, men can be subjected to domestic violence, although not to extent that women or girls are. Tw are still not women.

@Datun
Thank you I hadn't noticed but yes they didn't raise the point about a 3rd space. I'm going to have a look at some of the other threads on here.

Thanks again everyone.

@Datun agreed.
Did you see that reddit post a few months back where a female set up two of her MtF trans friends up on a "lesbian" date? One went utterly ballistic in a typically male way when he found out the other "lesbian" was also male.
Validation is of the utmost importance, and they have no qualms about using any form of bad behaviour to enforce it.

Try this thread. Lots of people have been in your position.

Although, it is four years old, and things have moved on. Also, I was asked to alter my posts in view of the more strict guidelines. I don't know if anyone else was, too.

Be warned, you might have to take wine.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?reply=111376335

No I didn't! But it doesn't surprise me. Although, to be fair, that might have been less about validation, and more about sexual orientation. Something that doesn't exist in trans ideology, or at least, not based on sex.

I've seen lesbian dating sites with transwomen on there, who put in their bio 'no transwomen'.

it's the entitlement that gets to me. Keep out of lesbians dating sites, ffs.

@Datun
"I've seen lesbian dating sites with transwomen on there, who put in their bio 'no transwomen'."
Doesn't that fundamentally undermine "Trans women are women" if even some transwomen don't want to date other transwomen? Clearly there is a reason why.
Makes a mockery of their own dogma.

Thank you I'll start there.

It's really appreciated to have a place to ask these questions

That's what I thought when I read that. It's a minefield.

Thanks I found this link helpful.

I don't know why gender identity theory proponents think this is a strong argument:

Men are women if other men catcall at them in the street. The other strand of that is (often straight men) who think men are women if they find them sexually attractive.

Leo Kearse stood in for Andrew Doyle on Free Speech Nation last week and said he considers the channel 4 penis pianist to be a women because he finds said person attractive.

I cannot begin to put into words how offensive I find the idea that this is how some people define women.

"Leo Kearse stood in for Andrew Doyle on Free Speech Nation last week and said he considers the channel 4 penis pianist to be a women because he finds said person attractive.
I cannot begin to put into words how offensive I find the idea that this is how some people define women."
Don't forget Kearse is a comedian who likes to tell jokes. Not everything he says should be taken literally.

@JacquelinePot That made sense too! I think that's it every time someone has a what about this someone else comes up with a ahhh but!

Fair point, lech, but he has also said he had a relationship with a "transwoman" and I took that to be serious as he was being interviewed and seemed sincere. In my experience this is how some men who like to think of themselves as straight try to square that circle and is at the root of some of the nastiest pro-trans "left-wing" men's vile behaviour.

So whether I am a woman or not depends on whether a random man finds me attractive? How utterly misogynist.

Ah.

Yes. That's not right is it.

The thing is, I don't think men are all that discerning. They'll fuck anything, to be blunt. One man was caught fucking the kerb, wasn't he?

It's not surprising that their view of whether someone can claim to be a woman might be along the lines of, would I?

And, yes, of course it's bloody misogynistic. Women aren't are just a collection of holes.

There's also the impression that women are the gatekeepers to sex. They can have sex whenever they want, just by clicking their fingers, because basically men are just up for it 24/7.

So they think if they become a woman, they will have that magic gift of being asked, relentlessly, for sex. That's what they do to women and think, if they are one, they will have sex on tap. Hence why a lot wear the short skirts and high heels that they find sexy on a woman.

it's pure projection. And has absolutely nothing to do with actually being a woman.