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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling - beginner's guide

73 replies

SpookyPanda · 29/10/2022 14:30

Hi was wondering if anyone had a link to a beginners guide to the whole jkrowling thing? From either/Both sides. I just need a simple summary really. Someone at work was chatting about it and she was getting into quite some detail but I couldn't follow it.

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SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 29/10/2022 20:30

Helleofabore · 29/10/2022 15:32

But at least the proverbial crowd under that huge blanket is growing.

I am crocheting more blanket for us. So far I have 320 odd motifs, which now need to be put together.

SpookyPanda · 29/10/2022 20:31

@applesandpears33 I've read it twice - quire powerful I thought.

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JacquelinePot · 29/10/2022 20:38

As I understand it op, it goes something like:

JKR: humans can't change sex, women need single sex spaces for safety, privacy and dignity, trans people deserve love and respect and should not face discrimination

Gender Identity Proponents: JKR hates trans people and literally wants to genocide them

Asdavaluesausage · 29/10/2022 20:48

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 29/10/2022 20:30

I am crocheting more blanket for us. So far I have 320 odd motifs, which now need to be put together.

Oh would you like a hand? I’m a dab hand with a needle.

applesandpears33 · 29/10/2022 20:50

@SpookyPanda I think it is very powerful too. I have a problem with some of the narratives that have been created around trans issues - JKR is a transphobe, JKR wants trans genocide, high rate of suicide if people don't affirm and most marginalised. I think it is very important that people look into these issues rather than blindly 'accepting narratives created by other people.

dropthevipers · 29/10/2022 21:14

It's dead simple. One the one hand a very small bunch of extremely vocal and angry tin foil hat nutters think you can change sex if you feel like that. On the other there is everyone else. JKR is in the latter group.

ArabellaScott · 29/10/2022 21:31

A crochet blanket! How bloody lovely. Actually I'd love to make a quilt for all the brave women involved. A square each. Hm.

Asdavaluesausage · 29/10/2022 21:32

ArabellaScott · 29/10/2022 21:31

A crochet blanket! How bloody lovely. Actually I'd love to make a quilt for all the brave women involved. A square each. Hm.

Ooh I’d be up for that. And I have lots of wool…..

ArabellaScott · 29/10/2022 21:42

I can't crochet, but I can glue. 😀

Datun · 29/10/2022 22:22

SpookyPanda · 29/10/2022 20:15

Thought this was the bit for discussing sex and gender? Sorry if I'm in the wrong bit of mumsnet. Anyway thank you everyone you've been most helpful. I shall try and watch someone on you tube try and explain why what she said was "wrong" the backlash seems so strong!

Maybe you misunderstood what I said? You can't ask us to tell you what she said that's transphobic, because we don't think anything like that exists.

It's not that we don't want to answer, it's that we don't think there's any evidence of that nature.

I think most people here are willing to answer all and any questions.

lechiffre55 · 29/10/2022 22:25

There's also a tweet JKR made that caused much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
"Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.

Live your best life in peace and security.

But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?

#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill"
original:
twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

BaileySharp · 29/10/2022 23:04

To be honest it was the unhinged responses to her very reasonable essay that made me see how mad gender ideology had become.

IcakethereforeIam · 29/10/2022 23:27

Isn't there a long, and completely, not made up at all, true thread about the downright awful things JKR has done to posters on these very boards, myself included, though it was really my cat....and my sister.

<bites knuckles, remembering the starling>

Datun · 30/10/2022 00:40

BaileySharp · 29/10/2022 23:04

To be honest it was the unhinged responses to her very reasonable essay that made me see how mad gender ideology had become.

Yeah, nothing turns people gender critical like transactivism.

SpookyPanda · 30/10/2022 07:13

Datun · 29/10/2022 22:22

Maybe you misunderstood what I said? You can't ask us to tell you what she said that's transphobic, because we don't think anything like that exists.

It's not that we don't want to answer, it's that we don't think there's any evidence of that nature.

I think most people here are willing to answer all and any questions.

Ah no you're right I think I have misunderstood your "we". Apologies!

Genuine thanks to all. This whole thing is exercising my brain a bit!

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ChateauMargaux · 30/10/2022 08:00

@SpookyPanda .. did you watch the video - does anyone have a transcript? I would prefer to read than to watch..

What are your thoughts having read and watched?

SpookyPanda · 30/10/2022 08:05

ChateauMargaux · 30/10/2022 08:00

@SpookyPanda .. did you watch the video - does anyone have a transcript? I would prefer to read than to watch..

What are your thoughts having read and watched?

It's an hour long so I've only watched 15 mins so far! Will put aside some time to watch it over next couple of days.

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ChateauMargaux · 30/10/2022 08:29

@SpookyPanda ... I also watched the first 15 minutes and found the inverted commas speaking annoying and the explaining why I should not find the term 'cis' offensive difficult to take so I stopped...

SpookyPanda · 30/10/2022 08:38

@ChateauMargaux Yes I did find that bit a bit odd. Like if you're angry about how transpeople are being defined I'm not sure you can go around defining other people who are angry about it. It's at least a nice calm discussion at the moment though, which is appreciated as JK's essay was nuanced and like they say I didn't understand what the uproar was so I'm hoping they address it in a similarly nuanced way as all the stuff I've heard about it so far has just been CANCEL JK extreme. I think I want to understand why it is such an extreme response.

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SpookyPanda · 30/10/2022 08:40

I find it interesting they left the comments open as i can't imagine many people feeling free to comment in support of JK as they'll just get insulted rather than a debate

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Zerogravity · 30/10/2022 08:47

In my experience, the more likely someone screams that JKR is a transphobe the less likely they are to have actually read her words.

applesandpears33 · 30/10/2022 09:21

I agree the response to JKR has been extreme. I've watched some of the video and there is one thing that struck me - I didn't realise at first that one of the presenters is a trans man. How would folk feel about him being in a ladies toilet?

Asdavaluesausage · 30/10/2022 09:27

applesandpears33 · 30/10/2022 09:21

I agree the response to JKR has been extreme. I've watched some of the video and there is one thing that struck me - I didn't realise at first that one of the presenters is a trans man. How would folk feel about him being in a ladies toilet?

Fine. Transmen are female so why shouldn’t they use female spaces. Buck Angel however, a transman. Understands this and always uses the mens or third spaces, as he knows he may upset women. That’s female solidarity right there.

ApocalipstickNow · 30/10/2022 09:30

SpookyPanda · 29/10/2022 15:42

What's interesting is you can ask any transactivist to specifically copy and paste what she has said that is so wrong, and they can never, ever do it. that's the bit of the picture I'm missing now.

This crops up occasionally on here.

“I’ve read and understand your arguments about gender ideology, i now need to read and understand what the arguments against are”

and there’s no real answer.

There’s vocal TRA supporters here (as they say they’re not TRAs and I respect how they identify) who should be posting their replies but they won’t. Or if they do they won’t clarify anything.

There is no missing puzzle piece. It’s a belief, a faith, that requires you to believe anything less that total acceptance is phobic.

BaileySharp · 30/10/2022 09:34

Yes essentially not believing the premise that people are who they say they are no matter what (so trans women are women even if they have made no effort to 'transition') means in some peoples eyes you are a hateful bigot. There doesn't seem to be much space for 'I will be polite about it but I don't really believe it myself' which is a position many gender criticals start from (and then we lose the inclination to be polite about it!)