Educate & Celebrate, Trent College and Rev Randall

[ChlorineChris]

Baroness Nicholson has weighed into the Jordan Gray/Educate & Celebrate Involvement in schools situation. In reading her tweet I came across this -

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/bernard-randall-vs-trent-college

It is just so incredible that so many employment tribunals have happened/are happening around this issue.

I terestingn to see that yet again institutions have taken a lot of notice of what visiting/partnering charities have had to say about their internal affairs.

I have not caught up with the details and timeline, but it does seem that Friday Night Live highlighting the work of the charity may have blown the lids of more cans of worms...

Fair play to Prevent - there are still some grown ups around! Bet there were some office conversations about that one...

"During his disciplinary meeting, Randall was given notes that showed he had been reported to Prevent, the U.K. government's counter-terrorism watchdog, as a religious extremist.
He was later told the watchdog had returned the school's report, declining to investigate."

It seems like a very reasonable sermon. I’ll be very interested to hear the conclusion of the tribunal, assuming that’s all he actually said on the topic.

I think there has been previous mention of this, I think I might have posted about him, but this might be the first thread.

To me his sermon seems reasonable but I'm not a tra and I have no time gor gii. From that standpoint....well...he might just as well have said 'no', and they can't bear that.

It seems, when it comes to it, some Christians would rather throw their own beliefs under the bus than go against the one true religion of trans orthodoxy.

From tribunal tweets it seems a decision is imminent. Unless I've misunderstood and the three days is not used to decide but, to decide when to decide iyswim.

If they find against Mr Randall, won't they be saying that Christianity is transphobic? Where will it leave religious belief as protected under the EA?

Sorry @IcakethereforeIam , there may well be other threads. I hadn't seen/heard about this at all and fell off my chair when reading the Baroness' tweets!

I think you're right re what this means for the broader position of Christianity. One article linked there says this -

"Randall was later blacklisted as a "moderate risk to children" by a Church of England diocese after receiving a report from the school.

The report even labeled the Church itself as a risk factor, given Randall was holding firmly to the Church's own teaching. The Church's treatment of Randall is now the subject of a separate legal action, according to the Christian Legal Centre."

Absolutely amazingly bonkers!

I have quite a bit of sympathy for the ET panels and legal system professionals who are suddenly being faced with unpicking all this.

I haven't dug about to see if there's a backstory where he's said a lot else, but none of those linked news articles suggest that that I could see.

The chilling effect from this is not to be underestimated.

We are again back to safeguarding. How are pastoral staff in schools able to fully discharge their safeguarding responsibilities of a clear message is demonstrated that even raising issues that you think may put some young people at risk of harm could mean you lose your job?

No apology @ChlorineChris I think it was mentioned in one of the Alison Bailey threads. I'm not 100% sure, it's overdue a revival regardless.

I hope it's the dying throes of 'no debate'. If he loses I hope he appeals. That he was referred to Prevent absolutely beggars belief. I've noticed I'm hoping a lot recently.

I did a cursory search via the school name but nothing came up (this does now which may be a good heads up for parents considering it for their DC as the headmasters testimony is interesting!)

We all have to have hope!

From everything I've read (not exhaustive) the Rev seems a man who thinks a.lot and considers his words. He also seems to have a real grasp of what's at stake here re conflicting protected characteristics and the implications for his faith and the CofE. So the outcome will be incredibly interesting and have significant ramifications. As he has further legal proceedings already in train, once could guess that he wouldn't take a loss lying down?

What a.mess.

But currently the CoE does buy into gender ideology. Hypothetically TM can marry women and TW can marry men in a CoE church, if the vicar is up for it.

Justin Welby then has recently said that there should be no gender ideology taught in schools. Because the things that 'will never happen', have started to happen.

The CoE is a contradictory mess on this and I hope this sheds more sunlight in it's direction.

I used to be a church going Anglican who voted Labour and strove to #bekind. Thanks to trans ideology I am now none of those things.

Trent College is one of those super expensive private schools. £7k per term and up to £12k (I think) for boarders.

Musomama1
Justin Welby then has recently said that there should be no gender ideology taught in schools. Because the things that 'will never happen', have started to happen.
Do you have a link to this? I'd be really interested to know what he's been saying.

That sermon is just common sense isn't it? Completely bonkers that he was sacked and referred to an anti-terrorrism agency simply for speaking the truth.

I know @Amarette . I'm not religious but have read it a couple of times and feel it is incredibly thoughtfully worded to say believe what feels right for you but don't be told what to believe if it doesn't feel right. I actually found his point about having a choice in his beliefs quite thought provoking.

From the tribunal transcript the Head justified sacking him because he mentioned marriage being between a man and a woman and he says this was harmful to anyone questioning their sexuality and that this heternormative stance was against their school policy to bear the wellbeing of all pupils in mind. I feel that justification has to work pretty hard when you read just how "you do you" the sermon is but IANAL.

I found this @Manderleyagain

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4650802-drop-illegal-trans-advice-to-schools-welby-urged

As someone who does preach this sermon would be better given as a lesson in PSHE or whatever the school calls it. Then there is a chance to explore, reflect and discuss. There is a power dynamic in preaching which will impact on how this material is heard. Self aware preachers refer to the pulpit as six feet above contradiction so a version of no debate. It really does need handling with care.

That's true.

But I guess as it was a school and he was employed by them to lead assemblies and services this would have been pretty standard delivery? And it was in response to concerns brought to him by pupils. It doesn't sound like the chanting was led in a way that allowed dissent or opting out either...

Perhaps he felt he had to do it more publicly and have his words written down as if he had done it in a lesson some of the TRA-leaning pupils could have alleged that he'd said all sorts of things that he hadn't, or had pressured individual pupils etc. Much safer for him in many ways to have done it so publicly. And now the court knows exactly what he said, it is difficult to allege that he said things that he didn't. I think it was very clever actually.

Rev Randall has lost his case but I think he's going to appeal.
The judge sounds completely captured to me so I think he might have a good chance of success.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11793657/School-chaplain-sacked-defending-right-question-LGBT-policies-loses-unfair-dismissal-case.html?s=09&utm

During staff training, Ms Barnes had encouraged staff to chant ‘smash heteronormativity’, which Dr Randall, a former Cambridge University chaplain and Oxford graduate, described as bizarre.

He said in his sermon: ‘You should no more be told you have to accept LGBT ideology, than you should be told you must be in favour of Brexit, or must be Muslim.’ But he stressed the ‘need to treat each other with respect’
But following a hearing at East Midlands Employment Tribunal, Judge Victoria Butler said this was ‘simply an enthusiastic attempt by Ms Barnes to warm up the teachers at the outset of the day’. Judge Butler noted that the Church of England cites E&C as a recognised ‘resource’.

During investigations by the school and the diocese, Dr Randall repeatedly raised that his beliefs on marriage and sexuality were based on CofE public liturgy, especially the Book of Common Prayer, and Canon law which states that marriage is ‘in its nature a union permanent and lifelong... of one man with one woman’.

However, Judge Butler suggested that Dr Randall had ‘misconceived’ what E&C is and that he had ‘an extreme reaction’ to their involvement within the school.

She said: ‘We saw and heard no evidence that came anywhere close to supporting the claimant’s view that E&C would indoctrinate pupils in such a way.’ She added the decision to refer Dr Randall to the terror watchdog was justified ‘from a safeguarding perspective’.

She added the decision to refer Dr Randall to the terror watchdog was justified ‘from a safeguarding perspective’.

It's so difficult to take people seriously about anything when they say that kind of thing.

The CoE really more about the buildings and parishes - the structure rather than belief. Churches range from more Catholic than Roman Catholic (High Church), to evangelical “bible is the word of truth”, to liberal “bible is a nice story but culture has moved on”. The Archbishop Of Canterbury just tries not to upset any particular group so much that they leave. Not helped by non-Christian politicians and celebrities trying to dictate what they should believe.

The judge seems to have mistaken this exercise in mistaken diplomacy for Rev Randall’s protected belief.

The judge sounds extremely naive.

On the other hand, an education appeals tribunal does set a precedent, and the Christian Institute will pursue this up through the courts. Awful for Rev Randall, and awful that anyone needs to incur the expense, but like Maya’s appeal it might work out better in the long run.

I think Justin Welby would be surprised to here you say that, shelefttheweb. Yes, the cofe is very baggy, but they do try and keep some degree of conformity. Hence the brouhaha about gay marriage in church.
I think they are waiting to sort that out before they move onto trans issues, so it'll be a long time coming.
I remember in the latest talking shop, Living in Love and Faith, there was a section on trans issues. Which we were not allowed to discuss. The upper levels of the church are totally captured. Inconveniently for them, the lower levels aren't.

Justin Welby also has to consider the wider Anglican communion. Though ten of their primates no longer recognise his authority due to the gay rights blessing service. Like King Charles’ blessing service for his divorcee marriage, I think it is hypocritical. Either you accept gay/divorce marriage or you don’t. If you don’t, because you believe it to goes against God’s ordinance, then how can you ask God to bless it? No wonder people from both sides are unhappy.

I wouldn't want to be in jw 's shoes