Kemi Badenoch appointed new Minister for Women and Equalities

[Manteiga]

And International Trade Secretary. I'd have preferred to see her as Secretary of State for Education in addition to Minister for Women and Equalities, but this is good news.

twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1584957913059454976

And do not mention women’s rights. Go on about ‘trans’ as much as possible.

Call everyone extremists and generally lose it under hyperbole.

Well, yes you are, if you want to be taken seriously. Otherwise it's just smearing someone. "Her views are monstrous!" Which views? What makes them monstrous? "Her views! Because I said so!"

You're an ideologue. You're using hyperbole and vitriol in place of an actual argument. Disinterested bystanders will assume that's because you don't have an actual argument.

Pp have generously given you many opportunities to bring an actual argument. Your last resort is to claim that there's no rule against being vague and pointless! Effectively admitting that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute here.

@verastan
,
The New York Times article is a basic explainer of the roots of CRT as an academic theory and the controversy around it.

I have actually read the McWhorter book and think it's garbage. He's a professor of linguistics who basically argues that black Americans are both not grateful enough for the protections they gained under law, and simultaneously held back by them. He's either not hugely knowledgeable or he's disingenuous. He is certainly no more an impartial subject than the NYT and his history is weak. In fact, one could argue he's weighed up what he has to gain by offering a contrarian perspective.

So, laughing at your suggestion as hard as you're laughing at mine.

According to @electricdreaming, it's the label of 'terf' that anti-women activists use for us which has convinced some people that bring critical of genderism is right wing.

I do think the general public see GC views as associated with the right. Perhaps this is because of the label of “terf” - by labelling people as exclusionary, you suggest that they’re not progressive and are more “traditional”, and therefore right wing.

So if we label genderists as exclusionary of women (which they are), will they then be seen as right wing? Is that how it works?

Yep exactly this. She’s a populist right-wing nutter.

any shared views with decent, principled GC is coincidental. She’s coming from an entirely different place.

This.

McWhorter is one of several black scholars who have broken down the racism inherent in crt.

What makes you think he lacks knowledge of the subject? He has been researching and writing on it for years.

Meanwhile the NYT is fully captured by woke ideology and we have good reason not to trust them. Especially since all their good journalists left or were pushed out.

Crt says that MLK is outdated. That we should bring back racial segregation. That the most important thing about any human being is the colour of their skin. That white people are inherently racist. It's a load of bollocks.

I also don't believe that misogyny should be classed as a hate crime. I think we should get rid of the entire concept of hate crimes and hate speech, for that matter. They are used against women and minorities by TRAs and other ideologues. People are having non-crimes recorded against them due to vexatious complaints. It's an assault on free speech.

I think that's a fairly common point of view. Please explain how this makes me a right wing nutter.

Or do you just think women are insane when they don't agree with you?

@Wallaw @beastlyslumber has put it perfectly

I'm pleased about this KB is bright, courageous, and determined which is what we need.

It's cowardice that's allowing the labour party to go along with this gender ideology.

I also agree with many of her other views: I think CRT is racism repackaged, I'd like hate crime legislation reconsidered, I think we have to take serious steps to stop illegal immigration, I think a wealth creating economy does more to lift people out of poverty than welfare, I don't think a women's right to choose is the only consideration in abortion, I think we need to focus on energy independence as a priority or the poorest will suffer most.

Am I a monster too?
Or do I want the same aims as the leftists: less poverty, more opportunity, fairness, but just have a different views on how this would be achieved?

I think the use of language like 'monstrous' to describe and denigrate mainstream well intentioned views is the biggest concern we have.
A society where differing viewpoints are described using language which evokes grotesque and inhuman creates an inability to discuss debate understand compromise. It creates a language that allows the belief that 'the other' is so inhuman you no longer even have shared humanity.

When you get to the point when you see the other side as inhuman terrible things can be justified.

Currently I feel the right wing is just normal right wing, but it's the left that have become the extremists.

Are you literally living in a hole? Have you missed the entire last year of Conservative rule? Totally deluded comment and utterly out of touch to think this a good.

I think the use of language like 'monstrous' to describe and denigrate mainstream well intentioned views is the biggest concern we have.

Well put.

Some dehumanise and then feel entitled to denigrate and repress humans on the ground of their belief that reality exists and women are a sex class that cannot and should not be identified into.

Some on the grounds of belief of their skin colour or their age.

Some apparently that they might vote for or fail to say politically anything but what the dehumaniser deems 'Right'.

There isn't any one form of dehumanising others that is more acceptable than others; the issue is dehumanising. It's one of the ugliest failures of this period in history.

Maybe we need to move away from ‘right wing’ as the worst thing you can possibly be.

it’s a loose classification of a band of opinions that might include economic liberalism, a market as opposed to a planned economy, individual liberties and rights, and traditional social attitudes. These beliefs might not be for everyone and you don’t have to buy into the whole package. I’m an economic libertarian with a few socially conservative beliefs and a few that are very much not.

Can we get back to disagreeing with & critiquing political positions rather than monstering them?

I like KB. Intelligent, articulate and stands for something. Will no doubt disagree with something she’s done or will do but there’s also a lot to like.

Oh for goodness sake. I’ve not called you’or anyone on this board a populist right wing nutter. Nor have I called anyone insane.

this isn’t a place for actual discussion. I’ll leave you to it.

It's obvious that beastlyslumber thought your comment "any similarity is coincidental" was sarcastic, @thedancingbear. Do get over yourself.

More accusations of mental illness to add to the list.

It wasn’t meant sarcastically, @Ereshkigalangcleg, I promise you, and I was perplexed by @beastlyslumber s post.

What an interesting read this thread has been! Somewhat lacking in substance though.

I find it disappointing so many on a feminism board are using ableist phrases to describe Kemi, especially as when asked to explain why they seem to say ‘ I don’t have to explain it!’. No you don’t. You can come here and say anything within the rules, but it just makes you look a bit silly.

Nobody has been able to show a single ‘far right’ or ‘extreme’ view or vote of hers.

Being right wing isn’t the gotcha some think it is. The idea that only left wing parties should be supported by feminists is particularly ludicrous given the left wing are holding very extreme views when it comes to women and identity in general. Yes, I would call some members of the UK Labour Party, extremists. Pretending men can be women and campaigning and proposing to allow any man to ‘identify’ as and be legally a woman on his say-so, is an extreme position. So is saying that it’s not ok to state biological fact that only women have a cervix.

Not supporting buffer zones around abortions clinics is a disappointment to me personally, but I also understand why people might not want this. It’s a slippery slope as we’ve seen with trans ideology. I personally don’t like we have separate clinics, I want them to be part of women’s health in hospitals and for women to walk in with everybody else instead of being pushed off to go to an easily recognisable clinic and sit in a room with all the other naughty ladies for hours waiting to be called. I hated it myself and felt very sorry for the young girls. I’m going to write to Kemi about this. She seems open to discussion in general.

I don’t believe in hate crime legislation and I never have. A crime is a crime. Motivation is a factor at trial, it doesn’t need to be separated out as a special law. Harassment, violence etc are all already crimes. The idea it is monstrous not to agree with hate crimes is… well that’s silly too.

Im Polynesian, critical race theory is dangerous and does not one thing to help us.

Again, nobody here complaining about her has really given solid examples on what makes her scary or ‘far right’ in any way. It’s fine to not like her or her politics, but the words used about her by some are not accurate or supported by anything she has said it done.

I find it really frustrating that this thread has once again turned into a debate on whether being right wing is evil or not. Quite a lot of your neighbours and friends are right wing. Do you think it’s tolerant to despise and demonise all of them too?

But it's ok for the right to denigrate anyone left of them they disagree with as woke, snowflake or bleeding heartbliberals. Or lefty lawyers if they follow the rule of law.

Or tofu eating wokerati if they're the Home Sec.

The basic problem for me is that crt is US based historically and contextually.

It doesn't work in U.K. contexts.

This is what I was responding to @thedancingbear

One could quite easily make this shit up, tbh. Last nigth while I was looking for evidence of specific policies I found that site less than helpful. Those extremely broad brush summations give a really skewed picture of individual bills, and no detail. That's politics for people who want quick soundbites, not clarity.

@User135644 I’m not sure being called woke is the same as calling someone monstrous or nutters?

I don’t believe in hate crime legislation and I never have. A crime is a crime. Motivation is a factor at trial, it doesn’t need to be separated out as a special law. Harassment, violence etc are all already crimes. The idea it is monstrous not to agree with hate crimes is… well that’s silly too.

Yes, I've also come to this conclusion.

Agree that none of those terms are helpful. Nor is that kind of sneery, divisive politics.