Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

And I've spoken to a lot of women who have started subscribing to WPUK since the event, and this thread. So 🤔

Presumably all right-wing women, because as was stated from the floor during the session, good working-class socialist feminists don't have any money. I hope WPUK is going to check those women out before accepting their cash.

@VestofAbsurdity

_^*If WPUK and you only want those deemed pure enough then fine come out and say it explicitly and don't ask or expect money or support from those not deemed clean or pure enough. You won't though will you? You are more than happy to use other women as resources for cash or support whilst sneering at and being dismissive of those very women. That shows an alarming lack of honesty and integrity.

Carry on with your purity by all means but don't have the gall to expect the plebs to pay for it*^_

I don't exploit women. I find that a really shit accusation. I fundraise for refuges for abused women. It isn't my job. I don't sneer at anyone. I have engaged in good faith on this thread. I haven't tried to lecture anyone. I have said that there is a need to talk about some things and that the event tried to do that face to face for once rather than anon accounts slinging shit at each other.

The word "purity" has become an almost meaningless slur in the current context. I don't even know what it's accusing women of any longer. "Won't work with aggressive racist men. Won't work with anti-abortionists". That isn't "purity" it's just individual politics. It is ok for women to hold those politics and say so.

I'd tune in to hear that call. I think that's a far more positive way forward that trying to retcon the WPUK session repeatedly.

I have said that there is a need to talk about some things and that the event tried to do that face to face for once rather than anon accounts slinging shit at each other.

Anon accounts slinging shit at each other? You mean the obvious WPUK members/founders accounts that are slinging shit at those who don't fit their very tight brief of feminism or politics?

If that was the intention of the event it failed spectacularly didn't it?

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder

I don't even know what "retcon" means. I'm too old.

@VestofAbsurdity

I meant generally across all social media not just here. You see this is the problem. Whatever is said is taken as an automatic personal attack and so no movement can be made.

You could just Google it.

it’s not even particularly new (coined 40 years ago, added to the Oxford dictionary 10 years ago):

@TheClogLady

So now I'm an arsehole for joking about not knowing some slang? Ffs. Really?

Come on Jean, examples of the shit slung at PP of SFW have been given on this very thread and others on this Board. If what's been said on Twitter and on the Facebook account that was linked in this thread is NOT in your view a personal attack then I don't know what you are looking at. That Facebook account attacked members of ALL other women's groups.

It's not taken as an automatic personal attack it is a personal attack.

The overall impression I am getting from the words and actions of WPUK members and founders is one of undermining, belittling and dismissing of other women's groups, as a previous poster said you don't hear that from any of the other groups do you?

If it is not the intention of WPUK to be seen like this or perceived like this then what are they going to do about it? At the moment they have their eyes closed and their hands over their ears singing - la, la, la not listening, we are the best we are right, we are the only ones who should be speaking.

I didn’t call you an arsehole.

But for the record, I do think it’s weird not to look up a term when you are here on Mumsnet supposedly with the express intent to bring about effective communications.

It takes longer to write that you don’t know what a word means than it does to look it up, so it’s not motivated by laziness.

You claim to be joking but you are actually demonstrating an unwillingness to make the effort to understand another posters point.

Do you actually care about the points posters are making here or not?

@VestofAbsurdity

Oh come on. I've been attacked by both KJK and Venice Allan repeatedly including saying I don't have cancer. This is not a one way train.

But it's in the past.

This is about how we move forwards. It might be that there are crucial divisions that are largely amicable. Some boundaries will exist and be respected. But it has to be that women can put their positions forward without needing to destroy the other. Or become tribal. I'm not the expert. God knows I'm no good at peacekeeping. But I'd do the listening. Make my decisions according to what I hear.

Also, it’s not slang, my screenshots are from the Oxford Dictionary, not the Urban Dictionary.

@TheClogLady

You win.

But it has to be that women can put their positions forward without needing to destroy the other. Or become tribal. I'm not the expert.

And there we agree, the issue is that that attitude does not seem to be prevalent in WPUK now either that is a perception issue or it is fact and either way surely it would behove WPUK to either correct that or admit that the perception is right.

The event "began" the discussion which is continuing here.

Really?

All I am seeing is a repeat of discussions that have been happening here for quite a long time.

I question this.

But I am all for your attempt to reach out and have a discussion with KJK. Good luck and I look forward to hearing it.

No one wins.

This patronising bullshit is bad for women and bad for children.

I’m not interested in a point scoring exercise.

I’m just really disappointed in a bunch of bullying women I used to look up to.

Wonderful. So what?

There are just as many from this thread and other conversations withdrawing their support.

So, what does your snide aside actually prove?

Is this reluctance to admit that some women have a point about the tribalism that is driving a group into factions worth the loss of support when the additional support would have actually meant greater benefit?

Yay! Winning! Woohoo!

@TheClogLady

I haven't bullied you.

I didn’t say you had bullied me.

if you’d bother to read the whole thread (and the three other relevant ones) you’d know what I’m talking about, ie, the bullying behaviour of multiple WPUK founders, associates and their apologists.

Are you not in the slightest concerned @Jeanhatchet by the fact that women here and elsewhere are being turned off WPUK by their recent actions and general holier than thou attitude?

Are you not concerned that women who would and did support WPUK both financially and in other ways now feel unable or are unwilling to do so?

Some boundaries will exist and be respected.

Jean, I am not sure that many on this thread would disagree with you. Not sure how many times it needs to be repeated, but I think many posters are quite happy to have groups that exist separately and do their great work. It is the 'respect' that is the issue.

Posters are trying to get the message across that the WPUK event did not achieve the goal you and others have said it was trying to achieve.

While you, personally, seem to be open to discussions with another group and I hope that you do, we have posted evidence that at least one person on that panel and one who added a comment have in the past made some pretty derogatory and vile comments about other women. This thread is littered with references to women being called 'domestic zombies' and 'piles of shit' or whatever by prominent feminists that is what has fed directly into this reaction.

And all we are seeing is that posters keep coming back and trying to deny that actually, some women who were at the event may have picked up something that was not intended and that organisers missed.

Either way, it is the continual denial that it could have happened that is the issue.

But it has to be that women can put their positions forward without needing to destroy the other. Or become tribal.

YES!!! How about if people on the panel who have cross the lined, or get up to add a comment, be acknowledged for their actions of crossing the line in the way they have publicly talked about a woman from another group?

It is the seeming lack of respect that is the crux of many of the posts on this thread.

@Craeig

Because I was told it never happens and it did, it does, and it hurt.

@Craeig

Hold on. Why "here of all places"? Why are women not allowed to mention the attacks they have been subjected to here of all places? Is this space owned by someone I don't know about?