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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Starmer asked about women's rights & EI

119 replies

ifIwerenotanandroid · 24/10/2022 11:38

Keir Starmer was on Nick Ferrari's show on LBC this morning (videos available on YouTube, question from Vicki about 12:28 in).

He was sounding fairly good until the '... but...'

He wouldn't answer the question on EI at all.

OP posts:
Babasghost · 25/10/2022 09:59

Weonlyhavealoanofit · 24/10/2022 12:27

I’m not a fan of Starmer’s and I detest the Conservative party, but I’ll give him one thing, he gives interviews on radio and tv stations irrespective of their political bent. When did you last hear the leader of the Conservative party on James 0’Brien or Channel 4? The transgender issue ‘what is a man, what is a woman?’ is an entirely toxic side show to (IMO) the much bigger issue of our terminal economic decline and deeply fractured civil society. As a woman I think I can distinguish between the male and female of the species. I can also recognize that a very small group of individuals feel trapped physically, mentally and emotionally by their sex and wish to alter their appearance so as to become more like their preferred sex. I regard these people as being transsexuals. I have worked in an organization where a married man with 2 children, decided to alter his appearance through the use of surgery and drugs, so as to live more ‘authentically’ as a woman. I don’t know anyone who has been hostile to his decision, but I don’t know anyone in the company who sees him as a ‘woman’. They see him as a man who has transgendered.
The so called culture wars aren’t a place for rational thought and an honest use of language. This stuff is going to be used assiduously by the Daily Fail etc etc to distract the electorate.

You haven't understood the issue.
To continue with your married man dressing in skirts example ...
He becomes a brownie leader and goes away with them on campingvtrips expecting to sleep in their room and help them with dressing. He takes them swimming and changes into his costume in front of them.
Starmer says anyone who has an issue with this is transphobic and wrong.

And before you say this would never happen guide leaders have been sacked for raising the alarm when this actually happened.

OldCrone · 25/10/2022 10:03

I have worked in an organization where a married man with 2 children, decided to alter his appearance through the use of surgery and drugs, so as to live more ‘authentically’ as a woman.

This is a familiar scenario. How did his wife and children cope with this?

www.transwidowsvoices.org/
childrenoftransitioners.org/

MariEllie · 25/10/2022 10:07

Babasghost · 25/10/2022 09:59

You haven't understood the issue.
To continue with your married man dressing in skirts example ...
He becomes a brownie leader and goes away with them on campingvtrips expecting to sleep in their room and help them with dressing. He takes them swimming and changes into his costume in front of them.
Starmer says anyone who has an issue with this is transphobic and wrong.

And before you say this would never happen guide leaders have been sacked for raising the alarm when this actually happened.

One girl who wouldn’t be joining that guide group - my daughter.

MariEllie · 25/10/2022 10:07

Babasghost · 25/10/2022 09:59

You haven't understood the issue.
To continue with your married man dressing in skirts example ...
He becomes a brownie leader and goes away with them on campingvtrips expecting to sleep in their room and help them with dressing. He takes them swimming and changes into his costume in front of them.
Starmer says anyone who has an issue with this is transphobic and wrong.

And before you say this would never happen guide leaders have been sacked for raising the alarm when this actually happened.

One girl who wouldn’t be joining that guide group - my daughter.

TeaAndStrumpets · 25/10/2022 10:15

When I was a student I marched against Maggie Thatcher, Milk Snatcher.

I am quite prepared to march against Keir Starmer, Woman Harmer.

nilsmousehammer · 25/10/2022 10:22

MariEllie · 25/10/2022 10:07

One girl who wouldn’t be joining that guide group - my daughter.

Mine either.

But who is going to protect the daughters of women still naive to this?

One such brownie leader, a TW, has pictures on social media of them posing in uniform with guns.

Fgs how many red flags do people need?

Moonatics · 25/10/2022 10:28

MariEllie · 25/10/2022 10:07

One girl who wouldn’t be joining that guide group - my daughter.

Well yeah, neither would mine if she was that age.
What about all the other girls though? Do they not matter.

Yes I'm aware I'm starting to sound "wont somebody think of the children"

But seems it has to be said.

FortunesFavour · 25/10/2022 10:31

This is why I cannot vote Labour

FemaleAndLearning · 25/10/2022 11:25

It is a real problem that many adults now know children (females?) who are/have transitioned in some way. But in order to see the big picture these adults need to put aside their individual relationships, but that is hard. The other problem is that it is mainly girls who are transitioning which is enabling men to trample on the rights of women and girls.

Camdenish · 25/10/2022 11:34

ScrollingLeaves · 25/10/2022 09:26

OldCrone · Today 08:24
^Mollyollydolly · Yesterday 13:23
This was the Mail article re the Kinnocks
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11344003/Grandson-former-Labour-leader-Neil-Kinnock-happier-gender-transition-surgery.html
I think it's relevant because it shows the degree of capture in so many of these families.^

I agree that this is relevant. Stephen Kinnock is Shadow Minister for immigration, so Starmer has the father of a trans child in his Shadow cabinet. This must make it difficult for him to speak out about this ideology without it looking like a personal attack on a vulnerable young adult who he may know personally.

I think you are right. That will be that.

But Starmer must know, or know off many trans young people simply because of the area in which he lives. Apart from anything else he lives so close to the Tavistock. He’s a good local MP and I’m sure has helped many of their families. Just because he knows families with trans children on a personal or professional level doesn’t mean he has to make Labour policies that TWAW. Surely Labour should be about the class rather than the individual?

FortunesFavour · 25/10/2022 11:35

Now that’s a slogan I can get behind @TeaAndStrumpets - “Keir Starmer, Woman Harmer” hits the nail on the head

TeaAndStrumpets · 25/10/2022 11:40

FortunesFavour · 25/10/2022 11:35

Now that’s a slogan I can get behind @TeaAndStrumpets - “Keir Starmer, Woman Harmer” hits the nail on the head

Yep!

Treaclemine · 25/10/2022 11:52

Long long ago, in my salad days, when I was green in judgement, and read Spare Rib when I could find where the newsagent had hidden it to alter that state, there was an argument explaining why ordinary "decent" men did not protect women more from the men who were not. It was, said the argument, in the interests of all men to have a few predators around to restrict women from taking a full part in society. I wasn't wholly convinced.
But now someone has come up with a way not only to keep us in our place, but prevent us complaining, even talking among ourselves about those predators, men like Starmer, whom I had previously thought was on the right side, have publicly joined in, and I am compelled to think that argument was true.
Making "misgendering" a crime will be much more effective than the "nag's" bridle ever was. Rosie Duffield needs to keep away from the "Weavers" by the river in her constituency, where there is still a ducking stool.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/10/2022 15:54

Treaclemine · 25/10/2022 11:52

Long long ago, in my salad days, when I was green in judgement, and read Spare Rib when I could find where the newsagent had hidden it to alter that state, there was an argument explaining why ordinary "decent" men did not protect women more from the men who were not. It was, said the argument, in the interests of all men to have a few predators around to restrict women from taking a full part in society. I wasn't wholly convinced.
But now someone has come up with a way not only to keep us in our place, but prevent us complaining, even talking among ourselves about those predators, men like Starmer, whom I had previously thought was on the right side, have publicly joined in, and I am compelled to think that argument was true.
Making "misgendering" a crime will be much more effective than the "nag's" bridle ever was. Rosie Duffield needs to keep away from the "Weavers" by the river in her constituency, where there is still a ducking stool.

It's particularly obvious when individuals & organisations around the world refuse to protect women even as they're protecting another social group. Not only are women accused of harming others, but those others are free to attack women. There's not the slightest pretence of fairness.

As someone once said, !"£$ that for a game of soldiers.

OP posts:
nilsmousehammer · 25/10/2022 16:57

Its male supremacism.

It's all fig leafed with a lot of incoherent whining about social justice (for some, sometimes, don't look at that bit, I identify as it being social justice etc etc etc) but it's just boring old male supremacism.

Here's the 22st century, same as the 1st century when the bloody Romans arrived.

Treaclemine · 25/10/2022 20:24

Funny you should mention the Romans. All week I've had an earworm from "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers", those Sobbin' Women with their Roman babies, saying "some day, women folk'll have rights". And i've been wondering if the lyricist, Johnny Mercer, wanted his 1954 audience to think that yes, now, they do. Or was more suggesting that no, they didn't. And whether he felt that they should, or was one of those keep us in our place guys.

MangyInseam · 25/10/2022 20:32

Fucket · 25/10/2022 09:53

Yes this was part of the issues I was thinking of, although I don’t think Jamie has any official photographs other than wearing suits. So EI would be a novelty being elected presenting to the public as a trans woman.

The main thing I would say about Wallis is that he's small potatoes, not likely to have any meaningful political career. Not likely to have any real influence on policy.

MariEllie · 25/10/2022 20:51

Do we really want our human rights junked?

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2022/10/25/when-question-time-eddie-izzard-woman/

ScrollingLeaves · 25/10/2022 21:52

MariEllie · Today 20:51
Do we really want our human rights junked?

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2022/10/25/when-question-time-eddie-izzard-woman/

Thank you for posting that article. Imagine the BBC being so lacking in impartiality, and being so stupid and thoughtless that they had Eddie Izzard on Question Time as one of only two women on the panel.

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