Bad faith posts about androgynous models

[WandaWomblesaurus]

Three of these recently. Used to see a lot of this on Twitter, people posting androgynous model pics and then saying "this is a man", cue outrage when it was a woman.

I'd suggest they need reported and not engaged with from the "is it or isn't it?" stance.

It's a deliberate misdirect and obviously being shared on Twitter.

The only girl that DD knows with short hair identifies as a lesbian. Everyone else including DD have pretty much the same long fringeless cuts. 99% of them wear skirts for school (which are always v. short).

I think this is key. If a dress is tailored for a man it’s not going to fit a woman very well and vice versa. It’s why male people always look a bit silly in clothes that have been designed for female people whereas they can look quite cool in dresses that have been designed for the male figure. What we don’t want to end up with is a load of male tailoring in the women’s clothing sections. It’s hard enough finding clothes that fit without a load of dresses made to fit men thrown into the mix.

Yes, indeed. Normalise again!

It was clear that the post about the model in tbe blue dress was a bad faith post, just the way it was worded.

And dear lord... it has taken decades to get some things that are designed with men in mind to be made for women.. back packs (shoulders too wide.. length between shoulders and hips too long), bicycles (ditto shoulder width, back length, leg length, pelvis shape), bullet proof vests / life jackets without space for breasts, seat belts .. I will stop now as I am totally off topic.... but I really hope we don't end up designing unisex clothing that no longer fit women's bodies but instead are inclusive for the very small percentage of humans who are male bodied but want to wear clothes that used to be designed for female bodies.

Remember those days when female people didn't have to notice or care about this kind of thing because there weren't male people trying to constantly smash their boundaries?

I think we just have to be on guard for weird stuff like this flooding boards to misdirect and exhaust us luckily there's enough news articles now throwing sunlight.

Photographs are funny though. Filters make people unrecognisable.

So true. We aren't just small men!

It's like the posts where a sexual crime has been committed and we are left wondering if it's actually a woman that has done it. But these ones of clothing models follow a particular pattern.

Totally agree.... wasting our time trying to make sense of nonsense rather than simply stating facts and not being misdirected.

I have a set of mantras... Rise up, take a stand, stand together, be free.. ..

Stand together dear friends... they shall not pass!!

I am totally off topic.... but I really hope we don't end up designing unisex clothing that no longer fit women's bodies but instead are inclusive for the very small percentage of humans who are male bodied but want to wear clothes that used to be designed for female bodies.

I don’t think this is off topic at all. I think it’s the risk of pretending there are no real differences between men and women and that women don’t need separate spaces or services or sports or their own clothing that fits.

A lot of women don't fit average female clothes either. I think it's a bit hocus to claim men can't wear women's clothes because they aren't cut for them. I'm not talking about the plus size issue. But if you are tall, then the bust and waist are in the wrong place and there's an assumption that women have far smaller waists than hips, but it's not unusual for women to have androgynous figures. I'm wearing mens jeans as I type and pretty much always wear mens shirts and jackets.

The model in question did look like a man. I’m not familiar with her in any way. To me it seemed like a classic case of men taking over women’s spaces. I was wrong. It is a woman it seems.

But that's the point to me Kiwi - there was a time when females could celebrate and enjoy the huge diversity of female form and presentation, it was a wonderful thing.

Now, because of male boundary smashing right left and centre, and constantly trying to wangle and deceive into female spaces, women have become defensive and we have to listen to our concerns of 'is that actually a female'

Because the fact they say so these days means absolutely nothing. The trust has gone.

Exactly @nilsmousehammer - this is the result of what has happened.

Only point of critique on that photo is that I would never buy a dress modelled by someone with no noticeable bust or hips as I do have those and I would not know if it would look any good on me. For a clothes store these type of photos will not help them sell more clothes.

Same for the heroine chique that is coming back. Only overley thin women modelling clothes, no thanks. I want smiling, laughing women of all shapes and sizes.

Same for the heroine chique that is coming back. Only overley thin women modelling clothes, no thanks. I want smiling, laughing women of all shapes and sizes.

So that would Include thin women.

Yep. That is me. I’m currently in boys trackie bottoms and a boys sweat hoodie. Only “female” clothing on me is a sports bra (regular bras are uncomfortable and I have no interest in wiring or padding or pushing my boobs into an on display for the male gaze position).

Trans extremists are desperate. The public narrative is not going their way with the explosion of social contagion among children, the Mermaids paedophile scandal, numerous court cases exposing sex offenders, detransitioners being heard and much more. Anything they can do to "discredit" those speaking out, they'll do and that includes posting goady threads on Mumsnet

The more extreme the ideology is getting, the worse they make themselves look.
It's an own goal that they have no control over because once boundaries are removed those with the worst behaviours show themselves for what they are.

It really is about time we separate the mentally fragile teenage girls suffering from multiple mental health issues and social contagion from grown men with whom they have nothing in common.

Quite. You cannot protect a group from repeatedly demonstrating who they are and what they will do unless prevented. The optics are all that has ever been needed to evidence the sense of what women have said from the start.

The thread about activists, wide eyed and innocent, 'oh hang our flag in your shop and join the celebration of this mythical convention up the road when actually we want to use you to show our power and repression of women's rights in the women's conference ; no awareness that the moment of 'yay fooled you suckers!' is followed by a permanent awareness of an increasing number that this flag and this group cannot be trusted and don't operate on typical ethics. And the smiles and innocent explanations are quite often very intentionally false and intended to manipulate you to do what suits them in the moment.

You can only fool people this way for so long before they're permanently wise to you.

My view is - No clothes are going to fit everyone unless we are all the same size and anyone can wear any clothes. I have no interest in trying to work out if androgynous models are men or women, I don't care if men wear dresses that suit them. Most of the brands that have edgy looking models in the advertising are ones I can't afford anyway.

I just don't want to see a penis in my changing room. I don't want to see giant fake breasts on teachers at school. I don't want to see adult men dressed as little girls sitting on beds next to children. Androgynous models and what they wear are not the issue. Predatory men are the issue.

TRAs want to try gotcha questions that are meaningless in real life. In real life very few tw pass, the tm tend to pass better. But again I don't care about what they wear. I don't care if they are on hormones or having surgery if they are adults. I just don't want this ideology pushed on children. So we can peruse photos and try and work it out but it's pointless. Most photo shoots are photoshopped, the clothes are pinned and stitched to look different to the way they would in real life. The whole thing is lit differently. The models are standing there for hours.

Models wearing clothing are the least of my problems.

So true - it's in the behaviour regardless of the signalling. So if a company pretends it's being inclusive which means suddenly it's allowing men into the womens changing rooms and that man makes women feel unsafe then their policies are fucked. Soon the rainbow flag will be removed and the changing rooms will be reverted back. Predatory men will do what they've always done which is ruin ANY space they are allowed to enter. Which is why we are starting to see a pushback from the older trans community.

My view is - No clothes are going to fit everyone unless we are all the same size and anyone can wear any clothes. I have no interest in trying to work out if androgynous models are men or women, I don't care if men wear dresses that suit them. Most of the brands that have edgy looking models in the advertising are ones I can't afford anyway.

I just don't want to see a penis in my changing room. I don't want to see giant fake breasts on teachers at school. I don't want to see adult men dressed as little girls sitting on beds next to children. Androgynous models and what they wear are not the issue. Predatory men are the issue.

Yep, that sums it up for me really.

I don't want to see giant fake breasts on teachers at school.

This is a bit judgemental and how do you know a teacher has giant fake breasts compared to giant natural breasts? I certainly to do not stare at my DCs teachers breasts long enough to note fake or not. And why should it matter if they are fake breasts?

They are referring to the Canadian teacher