Radio 4 Today Programme - Miriam Margolyes

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Miriam Margolyes on Radio 4 Today programme earlier talking about Robbie Coltrane. Justin Webb says something like - he was firm in his support for JKR - MM replies - well it is a difficult area, as a gay woman, I just want everybody to do what they want -

It is an example of how so many in the entertainment industry in particular have failed to examine the subject at all. What are the consequences of everyone doing what they want Miriam? I am astounded at the lack of curiosity in general in our current culture. Did anyone else hear it?

She fence-sits massively on Israel/Palestine too. Cowardly. Just express what you feel, FFS.

The "opinion" is - everyone should be able to do what they want really - Can you explain to me exactly how that works out in a social context without any coersion of others? I mean, sure anyone can have an "opinion" on anything they like, but for it to be valuable at all you need to be able to articulate the ideas behind your opinion. Otherwise the opinion is valueless, just empty words.

I spent a weekend with Miriam Margolyes a few years ago when she was in a film that was being shot in this area. I had a friend who was working on the project and invited MM to stay over one weekend. The friend quickly realised what she'd done and asked a variety of others, including me, to stay or call in in order to share the pleasure.

MM didn't strike me as a deep thinker. She gets an idea and she riffs on it and then if she gets applauded she just keeps on with that idea. Everything's about her. Broadcast only, no reception. I kept seeing her as an adored child stuck doing party pieces for sweeties and praise.

I've never understood her obsession with oral sex. It's as if she's trying to mitigate being a lesbian. And it's so sort of desperate. I feel rather sorry for her, because I think half her entertainment value is a kind of awed horror at her lack of decorum and boundaries.

EVERYONE knows that abusive men will take advantage of this ideology and use it.

Everyone also knows that as soon as they express concerns about this they are accused of calling all trans women abusive.

And I think MM is a little like my sister in this. Like MM, she is little and gobby and used to speaking her mind. She assumes that if she was in a changing room with someone who was making her feel uncomfortable she would just shout at them and call them names and tell them to fuck off and everyone would support her.

She has NO IDEA.

I didn’t particularly like MM, who seems selfish. But this makes me like and respect her more. Looks as if her views have evolved a bit and she’s now speaking up for JKR. As she should, but most actors are too gutless. Robbie Coltrane was heroic — much missed.

@pattihews yes I can imagine the scenario and the personality you describe. It was more the kind of acceptable, throw away comment about letting everyone do what they like, that seems not to be challenged. Although, of course the tribute discussion about a loved actor like Robbie Coltrane is not the place to have a challenging debate on this subject.

And if I am being generous, I think this is where Billy Bragg and Graham Norton and their ilk are with their thinking.

They genuinely think that if there was a problem, if someone was using self id or a trans identity to be abusive, someone would call them out and stand up to them. They haven't considered yet that all the tools to do so are being taken away.

What are the consequences of everyone doing what they want Miriam?

just another example of why you shouldn’t care what a celebrity says.

I agree. I find her so vulgar and unpleasant. She isn’t amusing at all. Complain to the BBC. I would.

But@rabbitwoman women are telling them. They reveal themselves by refusing to hear what women are saying. It is this to me that is really revealing of a misogyny. In these days when we are supposed to all examine our priviledge, there is no such soul searching before they spout nonsense is there?

I think it's ok that she doesn't have strong opinions and doesn't feel the need to have a side. Especially in an interview about Robbie Coltrane where it was inappropriate to try and get her debating trans.

Much better that she she doesn't know and says this than blindly jumps on one side or another. Or goes anti JK Rowling because she thinks it is the done thing.

I think it's always ok to be neutral and attacking her for not being GC is wrong. She is an actress not an MP and it's ok for her to not express her opinions.

I don't care. But culturally many people do. Celebrities are influential.

Yes, I did. And I thought just what you did.

It was just more superficial, ignorant, ‘be kind’ business.

What JK had essentially said was that people must do whatever they want …….so long as that does not transgress against other people’s rights, and that is what she is vilified for.

So Miriam saying “I just want people to do what they want” was missing the point - which Robbie Coltrane presumably had not considering he had stuck by JKR.

Justin Webb being splendid again. He really gets it.

MM still doing her "outrageous older woman" schlock.

she did express an opinion - she said everybody should be able to do what they want.

MM still doing her "outrageous older woman" schlock.

I saw her on Graham Norton once a few years ago and she said something crude or outrageous. Other guests looked sort of taken aback or a bit uncomfortable and the comment got a laugh but it all seemed very awkward.

Champagne socialist smug attention seeking mediocre actress - why would anyone be interested in her opinion?

Yes. The problem is that if everyone has the right to do as they like, you’ve overturned democracy. We don’t all then get a chance to do what we want. The most forceful and demanding people (can’t think of the word for them …) do as they please at the expense of everyone else. The men who want to take women’s rights take them.

I think this is spot on. Having had years of experience of what it is like being a woman and listening to other women, we can see how vulnerable rules, policies and word definitions can make women and girls.

Precisely why I said people shouldn’t care.

FlamingoSocks · Today 10:06
Not a MM fan but I think she was articulating the tension between “be kind” and “hang on there seems to be some unintended consequences going on here…..”. Of course we all would love to live in a world where everyone could do what they wanted!

Having just seen the transcript posted a little before,
DadDadDad · Today 10:02
(Thank you for that, Dad)
I think you are right.

But it’s the “I just want everyone to do what they want” that comes across strongly. The other ‘let’s talk’ part comes across as weak and failing to address what the problem is.

It is very ‘Both sides-ish’’, ‘I don’t have dirty hands-ish’.

In deed.

But again, when I tried to explain this to my sister who was very aggressively TWAW and everyone should be able to do what they want, it was apparent that she really thought if someone was out of order she could just tell them to fuck off.

She did not believe me when I said that if she shouted at a man being abusive and told him to fuck off, or reported him, that SHE could be the one in trouble if he claimed to be a trans woman.

And my God, this line, 'everyone should be able to do what they want' - has everyone lost their Goddamn minds!!! I work in a school..... The kids want to sit on their phones all day and chat. They don't want to wear uniform. We have to be vigilant and protect them from people who would abuse them. It's just one of those nice, easily quoted headlines that people say without thinking.

Fizbosshoes · Today 10:42
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MM still doing her "outrageous older woman" schlock.

I saw her on Graham Norton once a few years ago and she said something crude or outrageous. Other guests looked sort of taken aback or a bit uncomfortable and the comment got a laugh but it all seemed very awkward.

I saw that too and the tale involving herself and a strange man which she related was utterly bizarre, as well as being more crude and shocking than anyone would normally relate on the television.

@ScrollingLeaves @rabbitwoman @Ofcourseshecan I agree. @TwoWrightFeet sadly there are many in society who just pick an easy soundbite and repeat it. This is one of those, therefore it bears calling it out.

If this is the reference to what happened before she met Olivier then it's here from c1min. Matthew Perry looks utterly mortified

That clip, and other stories outlined here, would be regarded as red flags in a man.