Extremist TW

[Sparklybutold]

I can't help but feel there's an emergence of two types of TW. Those that stay quiet and are just trying to do the best they can and then the more vocal ones that are actually doing more harm for the former. I can't help but feel this latter group are the extremists. In the past couple of weeks I have met 2 TW and both have left me feeling really uneasy. They dominated the space and were just rude.

Thoughts?

Perhaps that people used to say exactly the same about gay men? 🤷‍♂️

How they were alright with the "nice, quiet ones that didn't rub their lifestyles in other people's faces" but not the other sort?

The extremist TW have been chipping away at women's rights for some time.

In my opinion, any man who claims he's a woman is anti-women.

And suggestions gay males were not demanding access to female single sex spaces. And gay males were not demanding they be treated differently to others. They were after equal treatment and to be able to live as gay males. Not force others to call them women.

But this feels like deja vu and feels like it has been all discussed before.

The two situations are not comparable.

Many of the loudest voices aren’t trans they’re just men who’ve found an acceptable outlet for their misogyny.

No they didn't. There is no equivalence between gay rights and trans rights at all. Some of us were there to witness the advance of gay rights and I don't remember anything that impinged on anyone elses rights. Stop making sh1t up it is tiresome.

@suggestionsplease1

so why shouldn’t the rest of the world have an opinion and even a preference?

‘Consenting adults in private’ was that such a bad principle ? (by which I don’t mean holding hands or kissing btw) . Why shouldn’t men like my husband , who was very handsome in his youth, get on fine with the two nice blokes who lived with each other next door, and with whom he could have a chat about cricket , but object to the blokes who attempted to grope him in the gents’ loos?

why really should any one’s ‘rights’ be more significant than anyone else’s? That is surely the basis for civil society.

You seem to get doing a lot of "thoughts?" threads in this section. Are you harvesting the replies?

Yes OP, I can see it. I think it's more the mindset than the trans status. This ideology captures lots of people. A subset are zealots... Some of them are trans.

There are lots of gender critical trans people too.

It does seem to attract self seving narcissists and people who like indulging in a bit of righteous rage.

You seem to get doing a lot of "thoughts?" threads in this section. Are you harvesting the replies?

My 'thoughts' exactly.

Men often do dominate shared spaces, interrupt women, etc. The ones who do that aren’t going to change when they identify as women.

Those who stay quiet are equally harmful to women and children, if they use women’s spaces and facilities or take women’s jobs, sports medals, places in hospitals and refuges etc.

For many survivors of sexual abuse, being in an enclosed space (eg public toilets) with a male is not only dangerous but traumatic. Pretty obviously.

Transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as non-trans males. This is much higher than among women, especially for violence and all kinds of sexual offence. Prison statistics show that a higher percentage of transwomen are sex offenders than in the general male prison population.

@MorningPlatypus id agree with the idea that a TW believing and demanding to be known as a woman is anti-women too. I don't understand why this isn't the same as the trans racial issue for TWAW supporters (Rachel donezal issue).

@suggestionsplease1

I don't think the current TW extremists is at all the same as the nice (meaning quiet) versus horrible (meaning loud) gay man issue you suggested. There was no indoctrination or ideology being pushed into everything, nor were gay men demanding the eradication of females-ness or erosion of safe sex spaces.

@Pixiedust1234

I'm aware I'm grilling on this issue at the moment. No harvesting at all other than trying to figure it all out as tg issues are very relevant to me both personally and professionally and sadly I don't feel I can speak freely in the ‘real world’

@Ofcourseshecan

I thought the stats of TW crime was debunked?

I thought the stats of TW crime was debunked

In what way?

TW, being male, are as likely as any other man to commit crime, and far more likely to commit crime than any female.
Almost all sex offences are committed by men against majority female victims.
This is fact.

More than half of TW in prison are sex offenders. Much higher than the general prison population.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

I thought the paper researching this was debunked as misrepresentation of the data?

ofcourseshecan is quite right. Prison statistics show that a higher percentage of transwomen are sex offenders than in the general male prison population.

They are discussing the UK prisoner statistics. These have been disaggregated by women. They have even been presented to parliament without any disproving.

No. The prisoner statistics are very clear that transitioning does not lower the propensity to commit sex crime than the rest of the male sex.

The Swedish study has been made irrelevant.

Actually there was lots of thought, both within the gay community and outside it, that the louder, more vocal proponents of gay rights were doing more harm than good for gay people.

There was an attitude from some quarters of 'stop drawing attention to us, you're making us targets for hate'. That is part and parcel of the difficult struggle towards more acceptance and more rights that most marginalised groups go through.

Actually there was lots of thought, both within the gay community and outside it, that the louder, more vocal proponents of gay rights were doing more harm than good for gay people.

what other group’s rights were homosexual and bisexual people ‘impinging’ on?

Indeed. Exactly this. There is zero equivalence between the two scenarios.

The same arguments were employed against gay people, anecdotes were shared to polarise people against us, 'research' found that gay people were more predatory etc etc. All the same things that happened then are happening now. Plenty of people thought gay rights impinged on their rights to be safe etc, plenty of straight men didn't want gay men in the men's bathrooms, plenty of people thought gay men shouldn't have right to enter certain professions etc etc.

I thought the paper researching this was debunked as misrepresentation of the data?

If you're thinking of what I think you're thinking of, there was a paper that had fairly clear long-term results from Holland or Sweden or somewhere like that.

One of the authors gave an interview afterwards where they said something like "if you chop the data up, you no longer see a statistically significant effect in recent years". Without actually revealing the data. That would be the "debunking".

But that's just a truism - take any statistically significant result, you can make it non-significant by chopping it up and looking at a small enough subset of the data. It's basically just a ploy to try to say "please ignore my overall result".

But anyway, you don't really need studies like that for the current day - just look at the current prison population! Transwomen are equalling outnumbering women for serious sexual and violent offenses in absolute numbers, despite being a much smaller part of the population. They obviously don't have female offending patterns.

All the same things that happened then are happening now

That's absolute horseshit and you know it.

Any trans person trying to access women's spaces is taking away womens rights to single sex spaces in prisons, care facilities, counselling and support for trauma, areas of vulnerability like changing rooms.

This is in no way equivalent to any gay rights campaigning. None of the things they fought for required taking things from others.

It is like we are on a continuous loop really, thread after thread.

The same arguments were employed against gay people, anecdotes were shared to polarise people against us, 'research' found that gay people were more predatory etc etc

What research? What statistics?

Whereas we have continuously posted the links to statistics that show a) MALES commit 98-99% of sex crime around the countries that release those statistics and b) transitioned males commit sex crime at a rate similar (and if UK prison stats are taken at face value, even higher) as ALL MALES.

That includes homosexual males as well.

Your determined attempt at trying to leverage past phobic behaviour against gay males to reflect a dissimilar situation regarding transitioned males is clearly false logic and this has been explained to you before.

But you continue to use this false logic to prop up some pretty appallingly argued points.

All the same things that happened then are happening now.

This is untrue. They are not comparable and we have explained why.

Plenty of people thought gay rights impinged on their rights to be safe etc, plenty of straight men didn't want gay men in the men's bathrooms, plenty of people thought gay men shouldn't have right to enter certain professions etc etc.

Yes. And they were prejudiced and most likely phobic.

Whereas you have seen the statistics and are telling women and girls that their opinion doesn’t matter despite those statistics.

By the way, there are also quite a few gay men who are also very conscious of the fact there is a small group of them who are actually rather forthright about how they think that ‘not all intergenerational sex with children and those still minors is child sex abuse’. Shall we discuss those views too?

Shall we start with Peter Tatchell? Shall we discuss that Mermaids trustee?

Or shall we all understand that there are currently statistics that show very clearly that transitioned males don’t lose any risk as a group and agree that your arguments are an attempt at emotional manipulation rather than clearly stating truths.

Up to you. I am also very happy to post links of transitioned males masturbating in female toilets on porn channels, while children are using the toilets. I am also happy to post the vile and misogynistic things prominent transitioned males have published about females. I can also post screenshots of tweets of twitter conversations where prominent transitioned males mock females going to the toilet.

The arguments about straight males not wanting to share with gay males also misses the biological disparity of power. A transitioned male still retains 160% more punch power than the average female.

So, against that 160% retained power we are supposed to tut and look away.

Tell us suggestions are you very comfortable with transitioned males watching a group of 5 year old girls getting dressed?

Are you very comfortable with a nine year old girl witnessing a know sex offender with a erection get into the spa with penis at eye height?

Are you very comfortable with males competing in female sports? What about Fallon Fox? Still fully comfortable?

If so, why?