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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Chimps

57 replies

katmeouws · 14/10/2022 13:44

I was reading an article that scientists had discovered transgender chimps. Is that possible? I had heard of gay dogs, but not trans chimps.

OP posts:
NitroNine · 14/10/2022 15:34

There’s an alarming amount of it about it.

Guardian article (April 2022) about [primatologist] Frans de Waal’s book Different: What Apes Can Teach Us About Gender.

Sapiens (2018) - in fairness a quite rigorous look at whether chimps & bonobos could have gender identities; with a not-unreasonable conclusion (spoilers!)

Somehow this November 2015 research paper published by the Royal Society - Primate archaeology reveals cultural transmission in wild chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes verus) - did not centre the poor trans chimps. Too busy focusing on the female chimps’ behaviour. Bet the researchers didn’t even bother to tell any of them they were valid. Worse than poachers.

In 2011 Scientific American were all about explaining female chimps are custodians, curators & transmitters of chimp culture. I say nothing re: males of any species being intolerable oiks 🤨

I think this particular nonsense comes from the 2008 article in the journal Hormones and Behaviour: entitled Sex differences in rhesus monkey toy preferences parallel those of children though.
People (well, National Geographic) then got very excited about wild chimps exhibiting those same behaviours in 2010.

Other people have built on the research, even if only in a very limited fashion eg the BBC trying it for themselves for “Horizon”. (With primates at Woburn; am not saying BBC is full of monkeys who spend their days twiddling their tails & playing with toys.)

Bonobos might be TERFs 🤔 - another 2022 interview with De Waal. Not what he says, but from the knowledge we have of bonobos, it seems highly likely that they would not recognise/understand TW to be women. No welcoming fruit, etc.

Anyway, yes, oceans of more interesting things to look at & consider but naturally people seize on the one - dubious - interpretation of a bit of research that was itself all about pandering to a trend.

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 16:55

impressivelycunty · 14/10/2022 14:13

PG Tips have got a lot to answer for.

TG Tips!

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 14/10/2022 16:57

Toseland · 14/10/2022 14:04

I saw this gaslightling on a BBC facebook post the other day, i'll try to find it... they could tell which chimps were female because they picked up and cared for the soft toys.

Oh FFS, my dog cares very well for his soft toy rabbit and even takes it on walks. Does that make him a girl dog?

waterwitch · 14/10/2022 17:25

My male dog mounts other male dogs. Does that make him gay - or just annoyingly dominant/alpha. NB, the girls love him & vice versa!

Kanaloa · 14/10/2022 17:31

waterwitch · 14/10/2022 17:25

My male dog mounts other male dogs. Does that make him gay - or just annoyingly dominant/alpha. NB, the girls love him & vice versa!

If he also likes girl dogs then he’s bi. Or maybe hetero trans-femme.

He might also just be a bit stupid, given that my sil dog tries to hump DH quite frequently despite them being the same sex and different species.

TheBiologyStupid · 14/10/2022 17:32

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 16:55

TG Tips!

😂

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2022 17:37

If he also likes girl dogs then he’s bi. Or maybe hetero trans-femme.

What if he jumps the sofa? Asking for a friend.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 14/10/2022 17:38

My understanding is that if you give chimps a load of toy trucks and soft toys and dolls the female chimps will tend to gravitate to the soft toys and dolls and the male chimps will tend to gravitate towards the trucks.

This makes complete sense to me, as we are not so different to chimps, and on average human females are more nurturing and male humans are more about things.

Clearly some male chimps will go for the doll, and vice versa, so if you use the (stupid, moronic, dangerous) logic of TRAs then some chimps are trans. FACT.

Imnobody4 · 14/10/2022 17:43

My heart sank when I saw this. I really liked 'Mama's Last Hug' by Frans de Waal but this is just jumping on a bandwagon. All he seems to be saying is apes are tolerant of variability of behaviour in each sex.

nilsmousehammer · 14/10/2022 17:54

So we really are down to nothing saner than 'any primate shaped thing that heads for the dollies and the babies is female regardless of biology'.

Which means 'female' means just a baby minding cooing one. The mummies.

Until males cotton to this and start ranting about not all mummies are female. And we have pregnant people.

Never ending incoherent babble.

waterwitch · 14/10/2022 17:54

Imnobody - tolerance of a wide range of behaviours/characteristics/preferences in both sexes. Wouldn’t that be nice!

Kanaloa · 14/10/2022 18:15

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2022 17:37

If he also likes girl dogs then he’s bi. Or maybe hetero trans-femme.

What if he jumps the sofa? Asking for a friend.

Uuuuuhhhhhh… maybe he’s like a trans-furry. So furries think people dressed as animals are sexy, but cis-furries (those born as animals) find other things sexy. Like furniture.

Again, he might just be a bit stupid given that dogs aren’t really that smart. But trans-furry is also a possibility.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/10/2022 18:26

@Kanaloa he is built for speed not smarts so that's a possibility.

Circumferences · 14/10/2022 19:38

Oh goodness have they discovered certain chimps threatening to kill themselves unless they're injected with opposite sex hormones...!

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 20:18

Someone, please, I'm begging - photoshop a chimp with blue hairGrin

IcakethereforeIam · 14/10/2022 20:23

Well...it's not a chimp...

Trans Chimps
NitroNine · 15/10/2022 21:08

But @IcakethereforeIam does it IDENTIFY as one?

IcakethereforeIam · 15/10/2022 21:41

I want it to be happy but, I don't care how it identifies because I'm species critical. TOUAOU.

NitroNine · 15/10/2022 21:52

Trans orangutans are orangutans? 🦧

Ameanstreakamilewide · 15/10/2022 22:06

It sounds like one of Karl Pilkington's
'Monkey News!

IcakethereforeIam · 15/10/2022 22:20

NitroNine · 15/10/2022 21:52

Trans orangutans are orangutans? 🦧

Yes, but I think I'm wrong when I say I'm species critical, because I do believe in species.

FunnyTalks · 15/10/2022 22:26

So, you can tell a amab primate is trans if it cuddles babies and is extremely dutiful about caring responsibilities?

Hold up! I just have to deliver some exiting news to my husband wife.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/10/2022 22:44

REP22 · 14/10/2022 14:57

Not long before someone claims to have a dog that self-identifies as a cat...

I had one of those when I was a kid. Made it a bit awkward when trying to convince him he was supposed to dig for bones, not to bury his poo. At least the cat taught him to fetch, though.

Fenlandia · 15/10/2022 23:10

PriOn1 · 14/10/2022 14:01

This is where we end up when “transitioning” is not an action, but rather some theoretically unprovable mental state with no discernible definition.

This is the nub of absolutely all the batshittery*, thank you for putting it so succinctly

*Trans bats are bats, especially when they come from Transylvania

megosaurusrex · 15/10/2022 23:55

pattihews · 14/10/2022 13:51

How would a chimpanzee inform as a researcher that it felt it was in the wrong body?

😂 😂