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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why do people think TW dominate the 'discussion'?

62 replies

Sparklybutold · 14/10/2022 00:29

So - I'm interested into why TW seem to dominate the trans debate. My only thought it that TW were born male and therefore have all the physical and psychological elements that contribute to men having the privilege and sense of entitlement to have the final say. I can't help but feel the whole thing actually does more harm for trans people generally and certainly doesn't help trans men.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Newcatbrowntail · 14/10/2022 00:29

What is a trans person?

CervixSampler · 14/10/2022 00:44

Men tend to dominate things. TW are biologically male and have been socialised as men for decades so they have all the power of the patriarchy behind them. It's all about them. It was ever thus. Poor men.

alexdgr8 · 14/10/2022 00:49

i thought this was a discussion about meghan markle.
known as TW, the wife, on many youtube sites.

ToFindNewWays · 14/10/2022 00:52

The TRAs who are aggressively dominating the debate are TW because they are biologically male, with all the hormonal, physical reality of that, plus were raised with male entitlement, as a PP says.

Pixiedust1234 · 14/10/2022 01:00

alexdgr8 · 14/10/2022 00:49

i thought this was a discussion about meghan markle.
known as TW, the wife, on many youtube sites.

...and two worlds collide... BOOOOOOMMM

Must confess when I see MM I think Meghan rather than Mermaids then I check which board. It can be a little disconcerting at times 😆

SD1978 · 14/10/2022 01:04

Because men usually do. If they see something as being u fair to them, they jump up and down and demand it's rectified.....

fallfallfall · 14/10/2022 01:06

yup 100% spot on with male privilege. ballsy

onaslant · 14/10/2022 01:15

Also TW entering female only spaces are not at threat. A TM entering a male only space still has to weigh up her safety - do they want to be the only biological female in an enclosed space likea public toilet? Do they want to be the only member of the female sex n the male prison or the open plan changing room. I'd like to see more trans men fighting for equivalent pay, equal inheritance rights, full combat rights in the military.

MangyInseam · 14/10/2022 01:15

What people said, but I do sometimes think that people don't notice that there is a significant effect from activist transmen and women who support gender ideology. A lot of these people are very invested, and tiktok and some of the more social pressures that make a real contribution to the whole landscape effect are coming from female people. For example, many of the non-binary teachers and such who are putting crazy stuff on tiktok and teaching it to kids in their classes are female.

onaslant · 14/10/2022 01:17

And yes re privilege and entitlement.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/10/2022 01:23

MangyInseam · 14/10/2022 01:15

What people said, but I do sometimes think that people don't notice that there is a significant effect from activist transmen and women who support gender ideology. A lot of these people are very invested, and tiktok and some of the more social pressures that make a real contribution to the whole landscape effect are coming from female people. For example, many of the non-binary teachers and such who are putting crazy stuff on tiktok and teaching it to kids in their classes are female.

That's true, and quite a lot of the insidious changes to language ('chest feeding', 'menstruators' etc) seems to be driven by 'non-binaries' and TM.

jewishmum · 14/10/2022 01:25

Gender theory is an all or nothing, if it isn't all then it completely falls apart, they are working hard to keep the fantasy going or they risk their reality coming crashing down.

I would say it's similar to a popular diet and lifestyle choice, very dogmatic people, cultish, entitled. On the loud side. The quiet side are keeping their heads down and trying to get by quietly maybe deliberately distancing themselves from that movement.

The men in the (diet lifestyle choice) also dominate it with an online presence, public speakers, doctors etc. That explains why TW dominate the gender debate.

MangyInseam · 14/10/2022 02:13

ErrolTheDragon · 14/10/2022 01:23

That's true, and quite a lot of the insidious changes to language ('chest feeding', 'menstruators' etc) seems to be driven by 'non-binaries' and TM.

I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. Which makes sense as women tend to be much more language focused in the way they navigate the world.

334bu · 14/10/2022 05:46

That's true, and quite a lot of the insidious changes to language ('chest feeding', 'menstruators' etc) seems to be driven by 'non-binaries' and TM.

Sorry but the drive to eliminate the use of the word woman in anything to do with female health matters is driven by males who identify as women. It was transwomen objecting to pussy hats and discussion of female health issues during the now so called Women's Marches which started it all off.

Helleofabore · 14/10/2022 05:56

I think that misses half the story OP. The discussions here and other platforms are at two levels.

Yes, there are transitioned males. Historically it has been this segment that has leveraged themselves into positions of influence, particularly over policy. Because, they are male. They often have been educated and employed as male and have had male socialisation from birth.

They still show as a group, everyday, that they have male tendencies in many ways. From the way they merely discuss and interact with females to the very real male safeguarding risk they present.

They are male yet many of them demand access female single sex spaces in various degrees of completeness. Some males just want to access toilets, sometimes they demand to be in every single sex space and role.

This group also have been part of the group involved in the push into education and sex education. Think of Alex Drummond. Think of the articles written in teen magazines aimed at teenaged girls on how ‘lesbians’ can have sex with these males calling themselves lesbians. Who does that benefit exactly?

The conversation around that group of people who have trans identities (transitioned males) is, of course, around raising the boundaries for woman and children back to even just adequate safeguarding levels.

And don’t forget the sports issue. We are all waiting for next month’s World Athletics meeting and what that will bring.

Then there is the discussion about our children, about the young people who are transitioning. That group, proven from the stats around the world, are female in the majority.

It is the female young transitioners that dominate the discussion. Discussions about the medical needs they have, and yet that again have been dominated by the needs and demands of MALES!

There have been ‘some’ transitioned males and some posters very invested for other reasons who posted on MNFWR regularly in the past, who would tell us all about why affirming treatment was absolutely imperative for ‘young people.’ Those posters would ignore the significantly greater health risks for the actual majority of that current cohort - FEMALES! Those posts were always centred on male needs. The need for ‘passing’. There have even been male posters telling us that it is quite ok though that those young males will never experience orgasm. Because ‘asexual’ people exist, don’t you know!

These type of posts have dropped away significantly after Keira Bell’s brave case. And the dramatic and predicted rise in detransitioner voices. And also when clinicians, a couple who are transitioned males themselves, have admitted the realities of these medical treatments for children and young people.

At the time though, those poster’s only concern was that all young people get access to drugs so that males could ‘pass’ better. But they either had no idea and not even a skerrick of interest in how this impacted females or ignored it. Even when it was explained patiently, they kept repeating about ‘passing’ needs for males. Those conversations were very hard to accept and mentioning that was a form of sexist discrimination in posts meant those posts were quickly reported and deleted.

This though was not unusual, it was the same whatever social media platform you were on. Those males from the first group mentioned, have had huge influence and the young people it is impacting the most on are proven to be females. The second group.

There is a whole thread’s worth of discussion about the dynamics of the interaction of the second group and the first group. How the needs of one group are being supported by the other. But I don’t want my post deleted.

And that fits neatly into an area where we also now have the issues in schools.

Where single sex spaces for girls, particularly spaces even more necessary in this era of pornification, is being dramatically eroded. And adults seem to be ignoring the effects of this pornification to accommodate gender identity issues. Or were sexual assaults always so high in schools and just not reported before?

Because it seems on one hand that we should have even better safeguards in place for female safety, but these are eroded by male entering into female safe spaces if they have a trans identity.

The extreme vulnerability of these young people who are trans identitied have also fed into forcing the language changes. And this narrative around ‘safe spaces’ or bubbles. So not just transmen or transboys but those with NB identities as well.

This is also the group heavily invested in tik tok and the constant visual reinforcement of transition stories. Plus the social justice hype captures them young. I have seen it in action myself.

So, no. It is not all about the males. It may seem like it though.

Igmum · 14/10/2022 06:18

Well said Helleofabore. It's very conspicuous that TRA campaigning to get TW into single sex refuges or young lesbians' pants, when there is no good reason for them to be in either, is active and vocal. Getting TM into the Masons or supporting TM inheriting titles, when there is no good reason to say no - crickets.

Fieldfly · 14/10/2022 06:36

because people are afraid of being called ‘transphobic’, which the TRAs have aligned with being racist or homophobic. Forced teaming. But people’s colour or sexuality doesn’t affect anyone else whereas a man trying to access women’s spaces clearly does.

NecessaryScene · 14/10/2022 07:06

This got me my first Guardian comment deletion way back - an important step to realising there was something weird going on here.

Someone said something about how it was weird that you heard so much from transwomen compared to transmen, and I replied "it's only weird if you forget what sex people really are".

And they deleted it! Was rather unexpected. Hadn't realised there was some sort of new censorship regime in place, cos I'd never really looked at it or commented on the subject. So I promptly made it my pet topic for the next 5 years.

Also, of course, it's not just that transwomen do the male domination thing, it's that what they're demanding causes significant harm to women, and those harms are increasingly visible and causing controversy. Any mirror-image demands from transmen do not so significantly impact men, so they would be less controversial even if they were as aggressive.

bodie1890 · 14/10/2022 07:19

Do they? I feel like I hear a lot of non-trans people telling them what they are or what they are not, what they should or should not do. This board, for example. But a lot of actual trans people I know are (understandably) quite scared to speak out in this climate. They certainly don't seem to me to be the ones shouting loudest.

Juneyblue · 14/10/2022 07:20

It’s because they are male. And they are considered ‘brave’ for showing there ‘vulnerable’ side.

Similar to when you see a man cry. A man crying is considered worse than a woman crying.

Thumpsquids · 14/10/2022 08:05

Sadly, too often, men aren't used to being told, 'No.' Often, they don't handle it well. This is the result.

Smilelesstalkmore · 14/10/2022 08:11

Have you ever actually seen a transwoman debating the issues in public (and i dont mean shouting into the ether on Twitter), listening to women's concerns and then putting their argument across coherently and articulately as to why any male who says he identifies as female should be allowed in female spaces or why children should be given access to powerful drugs such as hormone blockers without proper gatekeeping? Because I don't think I have.

And yet, people are falling over themselves to do what pleases transwomen, to not 'offend them', transwomen are winning awards meant for women and speaking at events meant for women, they are being lauded in politics, appearing in photoshoots and lists that are apparently focused on women, language is being changed left right and centre to do what pleases them, in Scotland they are probably going to change the law to fit with what transwomen want regardless of what women say about it, women who do speak out about it are getting death threats and their livelihoods threatened. There are literally dozens of examples we could list here.

And transmen occasionally come to public awareness for.....having babies.

It's so obvious that this is just misogyny and patriarchy repackaged for a more 'progressive' era.

Smilelesstalkmore · 14/10/2022 08:14

Thumpsquids · 14/10/2022 08:05

Sadly, too often, men aren't used to being told, 'No.' Often, they don't handle it well. This is the result.

Yep.

And it's very interesting that this has all come about at a time when, in the West at least, women were finally gaining some ground in terms of representation in business, politics, sports, when we were finally on the road to some sort of equality.

It feels like certain males have turned around and said 'hang on, I don't think so.....'.

Donchah · 14/10/2022 08:15

Because they're men.

Smilelesstalkmore · 14/10/2022 08:39

It's one of the rules of misogyny isn't it?

Men are whatever men say they are, and women are whatever men say they are.