Hadley Freeman's going to the Sunday Times

[RoyalCorgi]

Can't say I blame her!

And good news for former loyal Guardian readers who now subscribe to the Times and Sunday Times.

twitter.com/pressgazette/status/1580532975397408768

Is it possible that the Guardian hasn't actually gone down the pan per se, but that this is just the first time many of you can recognise how strange and misleading (and untrue) their reporting can be on issues?

That's quite possibly true. You don't know what you don't know. My assumption was always that the Guardian was honest and truthful, while evil right-wing papers like the Times (detested Murdoch press!) or the Mail (even worse!) were full of lies.

Let's say I've had to revisit that opinion.

I would agree that the Guardian's journalism has always been a bit dodgy. But that's true of most papers int his country.

I have long had a Times subscription and have always like it and am pleased Hadley is moving... but the vitriol they write about Meghan Markle is really putting me off. I'm not a particular fan of hers, but they never miss an opportunity to write sarcastic unpleasant articles and it's really bothering me.

Is it possible that the Guardian hasn't actually gone down the pan per se, but that this is just the first time many of you can recognise how strange and misleading (and untrue) their reporting can be on issues?

I think Torunette makes a good point. My unease with the Guardian probably started withh their 'coverage' of the Rochdale/Rotherham/etc grooming gangs, and the assaults in Cologne in 2015, but it's quite possible I was just willfully blinkered before then. One difference though is that I remember when The Guardian regularly featured a much wider range of guest writers: David Cameron, George Osborne and Ken Clarke all spring to mind. I can't imagine that happening now.

The Saturday Guardian used to be so good. Hadley's column was great but remember that whole Family section. I used to love the Living with Teenagers column, the dating over 50 and man with a pram. Then there was Work and all the great employment tips.
The magazine articles were fascinating, Della Aitkenhead's articles were always brilliant.

I can barely be bothered to read it now, the only good bit is blind date and it pissed me off when they sent a lesbian on a date with a trans woman.

Hadley 'getting it right again' Freeman, as I call her. Good for her.

@Torunette I would love to know what you are referring to. Genuinely intriguing.

@SapphosRock I completely agree - I think I bought a paper Saturday Guardian every weekend starting around 2006 and read every section except sport and the tv guide. I subscribed to the FT as well for work and read them both. I started really noticing a divergence between the FT and the Guardian and a real change in focus in 2016 and floated for a while before giving the Times a try alongside the FT - it certainly isn't a perfect fit, I find the property stuff in the Times boring and I miss the food and culture sections of the Guardian. I wish they'd increase the amount of the Times food writing - not just extracts of cookbooks please!!! Or let me just buy the Guardian Food insert.

And now I google, I see that the new editor Kath Viner took over in mid 2015. Amazing how quickly that translated into my no longer enjoying reading it without realising there had been an editorial change.

@Floisme

and the assaults in Cologne in 2015

Yes that's when things really turned for me as well when it came to my opinion of them. They took longer than they should have to cover that news, and when they did, most of the opinion pieces were basically 'Yes this is awful......BUT', and it was that but that told you everything. It read like an apology piece. I saw that there is most certainly a hierarchy when it comes to causes you're meant to prioritise. I'd suspected this for a while but saw it confirmed at that time.

I don't think any of the opinion piece writers were brave enough to take a hard stance on it. You know, we have to be aware that there are cultural differences at play here, and that white men commit assaults too.........blah blah, that sort of thing. It didn't read as balanced. It read as cowardly.

Cowardly, and that some people don't care as much about women's welfare as they say they do.

Ah the Guardian ‘Family’ section! Bloody brilliant! Miss that.

the Guardian misrepresent more issues even than the beeb. Both ignore womens issues, it pisses me right off.

Yes I also hate giving money to the evil Murdoch man.

Used to like the independent. The mobile version is abysmal, so full of ads it overwhelms my phone. Shame.

I loved the Family section too. There was always something interesting, something funny and something poignant. And I loved the stories behind the family recipes submitted. And the family photos. All of it.

Agree with all the recent posts - especially about the Saturday Manchester Guardian. Having it spread out on the dining room table in the first little terraced house I owned, cat sitting on the table eyeing up my breakfast while (after a busy week teaching), I worked my way through so many interesting articles, political debate (remember when they knew how to debate?) and feeling that they were my tribe.

I rarely even glance at it now so tainted is their journalism.

and the assaults in Cologne in 2015

Me too. I met someone at the time through work who was from Cologne and she was full of how awful it was, so I was extra enraged. Why would I read a newspaper whose attitude on violence against women changed depending on who was perpetrating it. I've made a point of not clicking since then.

It was great. Such a shame they got rid of it.

I loved it too....did they get rid of it because it was too 'heteronormative'?

Simon Edge posted this Private Eye story about Hadley's good bye letter to the Graun: twitter.com/simonjedge/status/1587804568485859329?s=46&t=SAVA75sEjYEuAb46ioKISA

"When I asked what part of my identity was acceptable to turn into copy, it was suggested I write about my children." Because that's all the Graun thinks women should be able to write about themselves.!

I would love to read the full thing. Anyone seen it anywhere?

Also in the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fcb3375a-5ae2-11ed-9b1f-f7c251e9dfdc?shareToken=66db4e5e42b7a5cf0167e655427ec38b

I did not know Adrian chiles and Kathryn Viner were married!

Wonder if Jane Garvey getting afternoon show at Times radio is related, probably co incidence but shows how connected it all is. Guardian and the Times having a Cold War poaching it’s columnists and ex wives 😁

The Guardian is awful now. And, like others, the scales fell from my eyes at Cologne NYE.
But my dh still takes it so a) I still get the great Feast section and b) I can flick through it with a curled lip at it's fuckwittery.
I take the FT. It is great but it's definitely swallowed the coolaid re trans. It's just that it's not touched upon too much.

Yes. You can get the vouchers just for the Saturday and Sunday papers.

This was just posted under the article:

"Having come close to cancelling my Time subscription on account of so many slanted stories here on the issue, I told a friend I was thinking of moving to the Guardian. His reaction (he has experience in the field) was to laugh and say it was far more anti-trans. Could it be this writer is leaping from the heavily weighing anti-trans scales into the already heavily tipping one here?
I reduced my sub and outlined why. Balance the scales please with fair, thoughtful coverage."

We must all have missed those Guardian anti-trans articles.

I have a cheapo online subscription the the Times and one thing it's revealed to me in spades is how unbelievably stupid a lot of its readers are.

I love Michael Rosen. But this just looks like stirring...,?

Oh no, I don't want Michael Rosen leaping proudly onto the #bekind bandwagon!

I like both Freedland and Behr too, but I think there is a notable difference between, on the one side, Hadley Freeman, and on the other, Freedland, Behr, Corbyn, and Rosen himself... can't quite put my finger on it... 🤔

Interesting that Jane Garvey's ex is now married to Viner. I'd never heard of him though. Viner as a femaleGuardian editor was such a disappointment and proved that "sisterhood" is a meaningless concept as women are half the population and a diverse crowd and the Guardian supported women much more when Rusbridger was editor