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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miriam Cates Question to Pm

83 replies

poshme · 12/10/2022 12:42

Brilliant question to PM on mermaids- listing some of the recent issues and asking whether police should be investigating.

OP posts:
VaggieMight · 12/10/2022 12:45

It was a great question with an empty response from Truss.

Empowermenomore · 12/10/2022 12:45

Saw that! Great news Truss said yes. Hope it happens!

poshme · 12/10/2022 12:53

The answer wasn't great - but the question brings the subject into the light.

OP posts:
ChristinaXYZ · 12/10/2022 13:02

You can watch answer and response here

twitter.com/CforWomenUK/status/1580164617401032704

pattihews · 12/10/2022 13:18

Good on Marian Cates. A hard-hitting question.

GlassDeli · 12/10/2022 13:24

Brilliant question from Miriam Cates, and very well delivered.

LadyMary50 · 12/10/2022 13:29

Great question from Miriam Cates,I’m not holding my breath after Trusses response though as I doubt she really knows much about Mermaids😏

ofwarren · 12/10/2022 13:30

I've seen Andrea Ledsom tweeted that she agreed with her. Have any other MPs commented?
There seemed to be a very loud 'hear, hear'.

mcduffy · 12/10/2022 13:36

A very loud hear hear and a very odd response from the PM. Miriam Cates is my favourite MP! Wish I was in her constituency.

Datun · 12/10/2022 13:47

Yes, she obviously had a lot of support for that question. I wonder if truss was just caught on the hop. She did say it needs investigating, though.

ChristinaXYZ · 12/10/2022 14:32

The government cannot instruct the police but it is extra grist to the mill for any parent wanting challenge Mermaids material in their children's schools.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/10/2022 15:18

What did Liz Truss mean about developing the decision making of under 18s?

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 12/10/2022 15:19

I din't think the PM's response was odd. She said "yes" without hesitation. I'm taking that as a win.

wonder what Nichola Stureon is saying in her office this afternoon? She'll be furious.

Datun · 12/10/2022 15:31

ScrollingLeaves · 12/10/2022 15:18

What did Liz Truss mean about developing the decision making of under 18s?

Yes, I wondered that. It's sliding far too close to minors can consent to stuff. I can't believe that of truss tho. I thought she was reasonably on it.

VitaminX · 12/10/2022 15:45

Who's the woman in the burgundy dress scoffing behind her? She's stating facts.

BitossiBlues · 12/10/2022 16:45

Miriam Cates as brilliant as always. I didn't think the burgundy clad lady behind was scoffing, I think she's trying not to react too much, but her body language is not dismissive. To me, she is making a disgust face and shaking her head slightly when MC describes the activities of the digital engagement fellow at Mermaids; she is then nodding along ever so slightly when MC says Mermaids have had unfettered access to children for too long.

Truss says that, " It is very important that under 18s are able to develop their own decision making capabilities, and not be forced into any kind of activity." You could interpret this as, let's enshrine Gillick style competence into statute to allow children under 18 to make life altering changes to their bodies, and legally assume they understand what permanent harm and losses they are incurring; or it could mean, let's rein in orgs like Mermaids who push a single, affirmative agenda on dysphoric teens, shut down parental concerns with cries of "transphobia!", shut down talking therapy with cries of "conversion therapy!" , shut down wait and see with "suicide if you don't act now!" and basically shut off all other avenues these children and parents that might take which would result in something other than irreversible transition. Liz "Women Do Have Vaginas, Nick" Truss was once considered as GC bad ass, but as PM, I suppose she needs to be more circumspect on declaring where she stands on this, and needs to let the Charities Commission process run its course without undue political influence from the top. Let's hope her past form is something we can rely on going forward.

Imicola · 12/10/2022 16:52

I think the response from Liz was very poor and basically says nothing substantive. Great question though and a good response from the house.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/10/2022 17:44

BitossiBlues · Today 16:45
Miriam Cates as brilliant as always. I didn't think the burgundy clad lady behind was scoffing, I think she's trying not to react too much, but her body language is not dismissive. To me, she is making a disgust face and shaking her head slightly when MC describes the activities of the digital engagement fellow at Mermaids; she is then nodding along ever so slightly when MC says Mermaids have had unfettered access to children for too long.

Truss says that, " It is very important that under 18s are able to develop their own decision making capabilities, and not be forced into any kind of activity." You could interpret this as, let's enshrine Gillick style competence into statute to allow children under 18 to make life altering changes to their bodies, and legally assume they understand what permanent harm and losses they are incurring; or it could mean, let's rein in orgs like Mermaids who push a single, affirmative agenda on dysphoric teens, shut down parental concerns with cries of "transphobia!", shut down talking therapy with cries of "conversion therapy!" , shut down wait and see with "suicide if you don't act now!" and basically shut off all other avenues these children and parents that might take which would result in something other than irreversible transition. Liz "Women Do Have Vaginas, Nick" Truss was once considered as GC bad ass, but as PM, I suppose she needs to be more circumspect on declaring where she stands on this, and needs to let the Charities Commission process run its course without undue political influence from the top. Let's hope her past form is something we can rely on going forward.

You put the two possibilities for what L T may have meant so well. Let us hope it was the second option. Though using ‘activity’ to mean life altering hormones and operations is quite strange, maybe you are right that she had to be careful to get her meaning across invisibly as it were.

I wrote to Miriam Cates to thank her for bringing up the subject.

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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 12/10/2022 18:15

The PM’s answers to PMQ’s are often less important that the fact the question was asked so publicly. No politician from the PM down can now claim that they are not aware of the issues with Mermaids.

Excellent work by Miriam Cates

Abitofalark · 12/10/2022 18:21

From Daily Mail: [The question in part]:
"Ms Cates told the Commons: 'For years, despite whistleblowers raising alarm, Mermaids have had unfettered access to vulnerable children.

'Does my right honourable friend (Liz Truss) agree that it's taken far too long for these concerns to be taken seriously and does she also agree that it is high time for a police investigation into the activities of Mermaids?'

The Prime Minister replied: 'It's very important that underage teens are able to develop their own decision-making capabilities and not be forced into any kind of activity. What I would say on the subject of the investigation she raises, of course those matters should be raised and should be properly looked at.'

It's not the most clearcut reply, and deliberately so, I would say. There's a warning - does that refer to under 18s or under 16s - likely has reference to the relevant age point in the Court of Appeal case? - I take it that warning means they shouldn't be indoctrinated into the identitarian ideology and herded along for surgery or drugs, having been led to believe that there's a wrong body etc and no alternative and no freedom to choose otherwise.

Again on the question of police investigation, the obscure generalising language ("on the subject of the investigation she raises") avoids naming it directly and then diverts into a more diluted generality ("of course these matters should be raised and should be properly looked at"). That's both political and to satisfy the lawyers, I suspect. It could mean any of a number of avenues and agencies to look at it. It's left open as to which and can't be pinned down. Fudge and mudge, I think it's called.

Emotionalsupportviper · 12/10/2022 19:00

I haven't seen the clip, but I understand that she has demanded that the police investigate Mermaids - is that right?

If so, it's particularly good news.

ScrollingLeaves · 12/10/2022 19:08

Emotionalsupportviper · Today 19:00
I haven't seen the clip, but I understand that she has demanded that the police investigate Mermaids - is that right?

If so, it's particularly good news

Not quite right.There was no sense of any demand. It was all more vague, but you’ll have seen Abitofalark’s transcription now.

ResisterRex · 13/10/2022 05:38

Liz Truss signals support for investigation into trans charity Mermaids

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/46c43652-4a6a-11ed-8b55-aaf85c581598?shareToken=9e08d6728df327c01f5dc294f1ec844d

Whatwouldscullydo · 13/10/2022 07:18

I thought the question Was well worded and well put fforward and deserving of an equally well thought out answer which was unfortunately not the case. I'm.not sure what liz truss meant really. I did wonder if it was about the whole gillick competence thing but i dont see how you can apply it to something that has consequences that even adults can't seem to grasp.

TheNoWord · 13/10/2022 09:18

I hear Miriam Cates may be on Womans Hour today. Hope people can phone/text in and show her massive support.

She really is breaking this wide open with articles in both The Times and The Telegraph continuing to follow the Mermaids story.

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