Another nurse (NZ) suspended for challenging gender affirmative care

[DameMaud]

Jennifer Scott, registered nurse from New Zealand gives a presentation to educate on puberty blockers whilst under suspension for her beliefs.
Not seen anything else on here about her. Looks to be very recent (Sept 22)

Wasn't she actually suspended/fired for not having the covid vaccine?

As most posters are aware of the recent Tavistock closure and the Cass Review which has been a big story in the UK, this video and the situation with puberty blockers in New Zealand is really scary. NZ doesn’t seem at all close to stopping their use. Self ID is the law. It’s alarming how many children could be affected still worldwide.

We all know that when the Guardian and the liberal media won't publish a rational voice, sensible people end up having to use whatever media is available to them. Susanne Moore and the Times and Telegraph, for example.

We don't do the old guilty by association number, so just lollop off.

RTFT - it’s not even a long one!

Thanks @TheClogLady for the Fa'fa'fine info, very interesting watch! I'm grateful for the education on it.

I am from the Pacific and live in a Polynesian country near to Samoa. I hadn't seen that research before.

There are numerous trans-gender women (natal men) here and it is a kind place so they are accepted as the innately valuable people they are. There's no transgender trend in schools or anything; its about 20 years behind on anything trendy 🕊e.g homosexuality here is controversially still illegal on paper.

I'm slightly puzzled about the fact that you describe your country as a 'kind place' and then reveal that homosexuality is illegal. That will go some way to explaining the existence of the Fa'fa'fine. Feminine gay men have often identified as women: see the Hijra in India, for example.

The message about vaccination is: the government and health service have your best interests at heart. They are truthful and would never put profit over well being. We have excellent scientific evidence that vaccines are safe and effective and any idea that they are a mass sterilisation programme is nonsense.

It's not hard to see why this message is difficult to swallow when you know that we are lied to by the same people that humans can change sex and you can see the effects of harmful and unnecessary medication and see young people being sterilized, huge profits are being made and all questioning is immediately shut down.

I'm still pro vaccine but my arguments look a bit empty now.

The culture in NZ in general is quite different to the UK where you question and fight for yourselves more. There they tend to accept things, the team of 5 million isn’t a sweet innocent phrase to use to fight a virus, it’s used to control.

True and not true at the same time.

They key fact about NZ is that it's population is low and, outside Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, low density.

It's a country where a consensus forms quickly.

This does make for a certain conformity of outlook, which was part of the reason why our covid response was so effective. I can't say I care at all that a few antivaxxers found this oppressive, but it can be uncomfortable outside the consensus, whatever it is.

Regarding trans rights, my observation is that there is no consensus yet. Government and business are completely sold on the idea but my observation is that most people (leastways over a certain age) are not. The trans rights lobby have been very effective at getting the people who matter onside, but it would take something quite limited, ie, National or ACT making rethinking trans rights a policy at next year's elections and things could change very fast.

Interesting comments about fa'afafine. I think the point to bear in mind is that Samoan culture now is strongly (and traditionally) Christian, and that will have had a massive effect on what being fa'afafine means.

I've also seen it said that pre-colonial Maori culture was trans friendly. The problem is that, I suspect, no one really knows. Furthermore there's nothing new about Maori culture being interpreted and co-opted for the whitefellas' own reasons,. Also, after being demonized for a very long time, there is a trend to promote trad Maori society and it's but polite to ask whether this is being accurately done.

@TomPinch . This is such a balanced, measured, informed and informative post! Thanks for this.
You highlight and articulate something really key; the tension between consensus/conformity and non-conformity that is playing out across many areas at the current time.

I've also seen it said that pre-colonial Maori culture was trans friendly. The problem is that, I suspect, no one really knows. Furthermore there's nothing new about Maori culture being interpreted and co-opted for the whitefellas' own reasons,. Also, after being demonized for a very long time, there is a trend to promote trad Maori society and it's but polite to ask whether this is being accurately done.

Yes, it’s frustrating to have my culture misrepresented and pakeha appropriating it to fit their modern agenda. We have no clue pre colonial if it was ‘trans friendly’. It’s outrageous to make such a claim at all. There’s no evidence of it. I don’t think our culture should come up in the conversation at all, we are once again being used to try and appeal to certain people and to stop them questioning the whole ideology. Since colonisation there’s certainly nothing in Maori culture to suggest any such thing.

I can't say I care at all that a few antivaxxers found this oppressive, but it can be uncomfortable outside the consensus, whatever it is.

as already mentioned, a lot of Maori and Polynesian don’t trust authority in NZ because of past mistreatment and especially in healthcare. So it’s all well and good to call them ‘anti vaxxers’ and not care about them, but it just adds to the minimisation of us and our valid mistrust and experiences of racism and in turn adds to the problems between Maori and pakeha.

WahineToa

I don’t think our culture should come up in the conversation at all

I see your point - although what I've seen (which isn't much at all) is Maori individuals making the assertion, albeit without proof. I think if they win that argument then promoting trans rights becomes a Treaty obligation.*

as already mentioned, a lot of Maori and Polynesian don’t trust authority in NZ because of past mistreatment and especially in healthcare.

I appreciate that my previous remark was a bit irascible. I'm in the relatively unusual position (in NZ at least) of having lost a family member to covid. So please ignore my irascibility (currently worsened by being in bed with a cold and a splitting headache).

I accept what you say.

But my observation of the vast majority of antivaxxers (particularly the ones who had the camping holiday on Parliament's lawn) is that they were the instinctive contrarians that every society has, and they weren't motivated by tikanga so much as Trump and Reddit.

• (for non NZers) the Treaty of Waitangi established NZ as a British colony and it made undertakings to Maori that weren't honoured by the colonial government. Now it's treated as a founding document and the government must abide by its principles.

But my observation of the vast majority of antivaxxers

How many of them did you speak to? Or are you basing this on media portrayal? As I said upthread, having been at protests and land protests with my iwi before, the image the media project and the reality are quite different. The vast majority of protestors globally have protested about mandating vaccines. That doesn’t make you anti vax, people vaccinated objected to mandates. Here in the UK, protest and public backlash against that led to the u turn on mandates of health workers. It’s interesting how the public in UK react to it and how different NZers are, far more judgemental and authoritarian.

I'm basing it on my own conversations with individual people and work colleagues as well as what I read in the news. To an individual they were into conspiracy theories, Trump and (with one or two exceptions) an I'm-alright-Jack mentality. Compared to just about all other countries my view is that NZ's response to covid was much more effective, in terms of serious cases and deaths, and as this isn't really the subject of this thread I suggest we leave it here.

NZ culture is quite relevant because it’s dealing with the trans issue in a similar way to how it deals with a lot of things and NZers narrow mindedness and history of colonisation & oppressiveness affects both transgender policies and other health policies, like covid. Comparing NZs response to other countries is ridiculous, there are completely different considerations and challenges for larger, denser and more global populations. NZ can be so ignorant to the world outside it. The negative effects of covid policies tend to affect the poorest and once again, disproportionately Maori and Polynesian. The covid issue wasn’t raised by me so happy to drop it. If it’s going to be discussed though, I will be defending my people and their valid mistrust of authority in NZ.