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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NEWS ARTICLE: Boston Childrens Hospital claim babies know they are Trans in the womb

41 replies

BrokenFridgeDrawer · 10/10/2022 10:01

Several news outlets covered this. This is one from the Daily Mail.

'No basis in science or data... just ideology': Critics slam Harvard children's hospital for claiming babies know in the WOMB if they're transgender
The hospital was caught in a scandal over the age for gender transition surgeries

Critics characterize this acceptance of gender ideology a 'social contagion'

The hospital denies that minors were allowed to undergo irreversible surgeries

By CONNOR BOYD HEALTH EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and CASSIDY MORRISON SENIOR HEALTH REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 17:23, 7 October 2022 | UPDATED: 21:05, 7 October 2022
A Harvard-affiliated children's hospital has sparked outrage after claiming some babies know they are transgender 'from the womb'.

In a now-deleted video, the Boston Children's Hospital suggested an even larger number of minors know 'as soon as they can talk'.

Critics told DailyMail.com the claim was was not based on science and suggested medics at the clinic are unwilling to question children who are often vulnerable.

The hospital, part of the Harvard University medical system, also faces claims it rushed under-18s into life-altering sex change surgery.

In the clip posted to the Boston hospital's official YouTube page in August, psychologist Dr Kerry McGregor explains the type of patients she sees.
She says: 'So most of the patients we have in the clinic actually know their gender, usually around the age of puberty.

'But a good portion of children do know as early as - seemingly - from the womb.
'And they will usually express their gender identity as very young children, some as soon as they can talk... kids know very, very early.'

It comes as several states begin to clamp down on puberty blockers being prescribed to children. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has previously likened it to 'child abuse'.

The Boston clinic sees children as young as two and three usually up to the age of nine. New patients come to the clinic and meet with psychologists to discuss their issues with the sex they were born into

Dr Jay Richards, from the right-wing Heritage Foundation, told the DailyMail.com: 'The claim that children “know their gender identity … seemingly from the womb” is a claim with no basis in science or data.

'It’s simply a concept imposed on the actions of kids by gender ideologues.'
Dr Richards said it was another sign of a 'social contagion' that is increasingly creeping into medicine.

'I think even 25 years ago, this would have been unthinkable,' he told DailyMail.com.

The Boston clinic sees children as young as two and three. New patients are given counseling before exploring pharmaceutical options.
The clinic also offers that child 'space and support' to explore their gender.

Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist who specializes in gender issues, told DailyMail.com: 'When distressed and vulnerable young people are offered an option to be somebody different, it's very, very alluring and gender ideology does offer that.'

'This tells us nothing about their 'gender identity,' a concept that no child has on his or her own, that no one had until recently, and that doesn’t even have a stable definition.'

Boston Children's Hospital is also embroiled in scandal over accusations that it permitted minors to to undergo irreversible gender transition surgery.

In now-deleted guidance, the hospital had written that in order to be eligible for vaginoplasty, or the surgical construction of female reproductive genitalia on a boy the patient had to be 'between 17 and 35 years of age at the time of surgery.'
Hospital staff, meanwhile, have said that hasn't happened because no 17-year-old has met the required legal and other criteria.

The hospital has also come under fire for offering young adults hysterectomies and permitting people as young as 15 to under go 'top surgery', an operation that changes the look of a trans person's chest.

Within about a week following public uproar in the realm of right-wing social media accounts, the hospital scrubbed that information from its page on gender affirming care, altering it to say, 'To qualify for gender affirmation at Boston Children's Hospital, you must be at least 18 years old for phalloplasty or metoidioplasty and for vaginoplasty.'

Boston Children's meanwhile, refuted the allegations as transphobic misinformation.

'Age 18 is used to reflect the standard age of majority for medical decision-making,' the hospital stated. 'Boston Children's does not — and will not — perform a hysterectomy as part of gender-affirming care on a patient under the age of 18.'

Dr Richards said that contagion had resulted in a historic rate of young people coming out as trans or non-binary, an umbrella term that people use to describe genders that don't fall into one of these two categories, male or female.

An expansive report from the UCLA Williams Institute, relying on government health surveys spanning from 2017 to 2020, estimated that 1.4 per cent of 13- to 17-year-olds and 1.3 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds are now transgender, compared with about 0.5 per cent of all adults.

In the UK, meanwhile, referrals for girls to be treated for gender dysphoria, or the distress that arises from a perceived mismatch between the gender someone identifies with vs the gender they were born into, have shot up more than 4,000 per cent over the past decade.

The exponential growth in rates of young people coming out as nonbinary is not surprising to social scientists who have documented incidents of 'social contagion' in the past.

Dr O'Malley told DailyMail.com: 'It's very well known that there's a lot of social contagion, for example, with suicide and with eating disorders and self harm.'
'It's particularly common among adolescent girls because they have a tendency to co-ruminate together, to over identify with each other to kind of endlessly talk about their problems in a very sympathetic way to each other, but it can lead a kind of over- identification with each other's problems,' she added.

In the wake of scandals at Boston Children's, the hospital has been subject to a harassment campaign and have been inundated with bomb scares and threats.
Other children's hospitals where gender-affirming care is offered, such as the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, the Vanderbilt Medical Center's Clinic for Transgender Health, and Lurie Children's Hospital in Chicago have been forced to severely curtail services or shift all appointments to telehealth platforms in response to the hostility.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11280475/Harvard-hospital-claims-babies-know-WOMB-transgender.html

OP posts:
Honeylover333 · 10/10/2022 10:07

I never thought the day would come when I would say Thank god for the Daily Mail. Meanwhile, does anyone know if the Guardian is still keeping silent about the investigation of Mermaids? I can’t bear to look at it anymore.

BrokenFridgeDrawer · 10/10/2022 10:07

So now the AGP and their empty headed handmaidens, not content with having drawing in troubled pre-pubescent girls, intersex People, 2 Spirit Native Americans, and god knows who and what else, into their alphabet soup, now try and include fetuses

( ... all to legitimise he fact their formative sexual experiences were w**king into a female relative's underwear and they have carried their fetish into adulthood.)

Is there anything they won't try and co-opt as sacrificial lambs ?

OP posts:
Rightsraptor · 10/10/2022 11:11

From that piece - Boston Children's Hospital see children as young as 2 or 3 and new patients discuss their issues with their sex with psychologists - at 2/3 years of age that'll be the parents then. Munchie Mums' dream. And what are BCH treating18 and overs for? It's a Children's hospital for God's sake.

We know the queer theorists blur boundaries but this is dangerous.

OldCrone · 10/10/2022 11:20

A Harvard-affiliated children's hospital has sparked outrage after claiming some babies know they are transgender 'from the womb'.

In a now-deleted video, the Boston Children's Hospital suggested an even larger number of minors know 'as soon as they can talk'.

What exactly is it that they think these babies know? Because what it means to 'be transgender' is apparently too difficult to explain to the women posting here. I've been told several times on here by genderists that I don't understand because I'm not transgender. Apparently the only people who understand what it is to be trans is those people who are trans. Even if they're newborn babies, we are now told.

Most human conditions have an objective description. 'Trans' is the exception. It is whatever the people who believe themselves to be trans think it is. And it's impossible to describe, explain or define.

But it's definitely not about stereotypes. And it's not a paraphilia, because some babies are trans.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/10/2022 11:25

Good for the Daily Mail. This is not new, sadly. This piece from the US website 4th Wave Now is over six years old. It's about US psychologist Diane Ehrensaft. Scroll down for the video where she talks about the toddler taking the barrett (hair clasp) out of her hair as a sign she's really a boy. And this gem:

this child wore the little onesie with the snap-ups between the legs. And at age one would unsnap them to make a dress, so the dress would flow. This is a child who was assigned male. That’s a communication, a pre-verbal communication about gender.

And this, which makes me want to scream:

Another thing that’s a show-stopper around [parents] giving consent is the fertility issue. That if the child goes directly from puberty blockers to cross- sex hormones they are pretty much forfeiting their fertility and won’t be able to have a genetically related child.

There’s a lot of parents who have dreams of becoming grandparents. It’s very hard for them not to imagine those genetically related grandchildren. So we have to work with parents around, these aren’t your dreams. [she laughs]. You have to focus on your child’s dreams. What they want.

These people are dangerous. God knows how many families they've wrecked with their utterly wrong-headed, toxic approach to these confused children who needed therapy from sane, mature adults.

4thwavenow.com/2016/09/29/gender-affirmative-therapist-baby-who-hates-barrettes-trans-boy-questioning-sterilization-of-11-year-olds-same-as-denying-cancer-treatment/

Helleofabore · 10/10/2022 11:34

As Andrew Doyle said, the issue isn't that 'he' is covering Mermaids so much, the issue is that mainstream media simply refuse to cover the scandal after scandal that is breaking over Mermaids at the moment.

That is pretty much how I now approach the Daily Mail. It goes where currently very few mainstream media will go. Sometimes it is crap, but other times they are covering highly important content left untouched by others. Although, the Telegraph occasionally does excellent exposes on this topic.

NoSexPests · 10/10/2022 11:55

This is insane.

On a possibly related note and trigger warning here for heinous abuse…

…we have seen in the news that there are men who will sexually abuse very young children and babies. I have often wondered how those poor children are affected and what if anything they remember or what memories as ‘impressions’ they carry forward. I hope none but sadly I doubt this is the case.

How must this affect their awareness of their bodies and of adult sexuality at such a crucial age? The abusers must rely on the fact that memories are hazy and the children unable to articulate what’s happening, and intimate access to the child is more easily explained through playing or changing nappies. It makes me feel thoroughly sick thinking about it.

Wouldn’t it be tempting for an abuser to explain a distressed and/or sexualised young child as ‘being trans’.

Hoppinggreen · 10/10/2022 11:58

So if this is true and you can have a female brain but a male body and it’s your brain that controls this then why can’t your brain make you grow the right genitals?
Or does actual Biology get in the way?

YarnosaurusRegina · 10/10/2022 12:03

This is bonkers.

Babies don't even start to realise they are a separate human until 6 months plus.

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2022 12:15

This is just horrific. It flies in the face of everything we know about child development. It is just incredible that a hospital could be promoting this. Really frightening.

Fenlandia · 10/10/2022 12:25

If it wasn't so serious I'd be pissing myself laughing at such ridiculous theories. What next? Non-binary sperm?

TheKeatingFive · 10/10/2022 12:31

The bilge these people are coming out with just gets more and more concerning.

Just where did they leave their goddamn brains?

this child wore the little onesie with the snap-ups between the legs. And at age one would unsnap them to make a dress, so the dress would flow. This is a child who was assigned male. That’s a communication, a pre-verbal communication about gender.

Like, what the actual fuck is this? The child unsnaps a few buttons and that's 'communication about gender'? The stupidity is off the charts.

My baby was great at getting one leg out of those onesies. I expect that means he was making a tail and 'identifying' as a dinosaur. You could not make this crap up.

RestingMurderousFace · 10/10/2022 12:31

🤡

Ithoughtthiswastherehearsal · 10/10/2022 12:39

When I was three, I thought I was a cat inside. Bloody glad no one fed me drugs (or catfood) to make me look more like a cat.

DN4 currently “is a dog”. Barks a lot. She’ll get bored of it soon. Unless she meets a bunch of sex-obsessed loonies who agree with her that she is a dog, stick a rainbow collar on her, and ask her to crawl around barking at their events, I suppose. Then she’d probably stick with it. 🤔

DameMaud · 10/10/2022 12:39

endofthelinefinally · 10/10/2022 12:15

This is just horrific. It flies in the face of everything we know about child development. It is just incredible that a hospital could be promoting this. Really frightening.

Yes! I can't get over the blatant disregard for child development that runs through the whole ideology!
Eg Magical thinking:
childhood-central.com/magical-thinking-should-you-encourage-it/
And identity formation:
courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-lifespandevelopment/chapter/identity-formation/

BloodyHellKen · 10/10/2022 12:53

Honeylover333 · 10/10/2022 10:07

I never thought the day would come when I would say Thank god for the Daily Mail. Meanwhile, does anyone know if the Guardian is still keeping silent about the investigation of Mermaids? I can’t bear to look at it anymore.

@Honeylover333 Nope, nothing in the Guardian as far as I can see which is weird as I thought they were proponents of 'silence is violence'.

Obviously they find violence against children acceptable.

I used to love reading the Guardian back when it was a proper newspaper now it just seems to be a mouthpiece for nonsense. Not even my lifelong Labour voting dad can stomach it anymore 😕

NitroNine · 10/10/2022 13:13

Rightsraptor · 10/10/2022 11:11

From that piece - Boston Children's Hospital see children as young as 2 or 3 and new patients discuss their issues with their sex with psychologists - at 2/3 years of age that'll be the parents then. Munchie Mums' dream. And what are BCH treating18 and overs for? It's a Children's hospital for God's sake.

We know the queer theorists blur boundaries but this is dangerous.

Perfectly usual in the States for young adults to be treated at Children’s Hospitals.

For some really rare conditions people remain with a paeds specialist their whole life as there isn’t an adult service to transition to, but that’s fairly unusual. As a result of that kind of need, however, Boston Children’s now run a clinic for adults - of any age - with congenital heart disease: mostly they’re lifelong BCH patients, but they’ll accept anyone with a qualifying condition.

The transition/turfing out point now is generally between 21 & 26 (latter is when children stop being covered by their parents’ insurance). Lots of people with health conditions requiring hospital care choose to remain with existing consultants/care teams during their undergraduate degree (if they do one) so they’re not making loads of big life changes at once (& you can’t move to adult services before 18) but you do see a certain sort of profile on social media clinging to paeds teams (including their paediatricians) for as long as possible.

BCH’s main cut-off age for treatment is 21. They do run a couple of adult clinics (eg the cardiology one I mentioned earlier) - but they’re for adults who will have spent significant amounts of their childhoods & adolescences in hospital; & who will continue to need regular hospital treatment for the rest of their lives.

BCH offering these surgeries to people in their thirties is absolutely about making as much money as possible from this particular revenue stream. Because, let’s face it, the 35 year olds won’t be patients of 33 years standing, or even 15.

While there are of course always questions in the US about negotiating insurance coverage, why an adult would seek treatment at a children’s hospital they didn’t have a long-standing relationship with raises troubling questions. In their early twenties it could well be someone who’d begun transitioning in their late teens via BCH. Any older & it seems a deeply problematic choice.

NitroNine · 10/10/2022 13:16

(That would be 17, not 15 - I got confused by the 33 🤦‍♀️)

Rightsraptor · 10/10/2022 15:53

Thanks for the clarification @NitroNine.

Igmum · 11/10/2022 07:47

Dreadful. Thanks for sharing OP. I also clicked on the link at the end because I now actually WANT the Daily Mail to have clicks and to support its coverage of this. Cannot believe the Guardian has taken a vow of omertà to protect the paedophiles.

NitroNine · 15/10/2022 21:23

That’s ok @Rightsraptor - it’s such a different system beyond the obvious insurance vs free at point of use!

What they’re offering is absolutely dodgy you were completely right. It doesn’t matter it’s all private rooms etc, there’s no justification for extending that service beyond the usual cut-off of 21. Especially as it’s not even an all-ages service to offer lifetime care & follow-up - nobody’s willing to take that responsibility apparently.

Lovelyricepudding · 16/10/2022 11:13

NirtoNine how do they treat pre-existing conditions re medical insurance? When you get to 26 and need to get your own insurance what happens?

WomenShouldWinWomensSports · 16/10/2022 11:32

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/10/2022 11:25

Good for the Daily Mail. This is not new, sadly. This piece from the US website 4th Wave Now is over six years old. It's about US psychologist Diane Ehrensaft. Scroll down for the video where she talks about the toddler taking the barrett (hair clasp) out of her hair as a sign she's really a boy. And this gem:

this child wore the little onesie with the snap-ups between the legs. And at age one would unsnap them to make a dress, so the dress would flow. This is a child who was assigned male. That’s a communication, a pre-verbal communication about gender.

And this, which makes me want to scream:

Another thing that’s a show-stopper around [parents] giving consent is the fertility issue. That if the child goes directly from puberty blockers to cross- sex hormones they are pretty much forfeiting their fertility and won’t be able to have a genetically related child.

There’s a lot of parents who have dreams of becoming grandparents. It’s very hard for them not to imagine those genetically related grandchildren. So we have to work with parents around, these aren’t your dreams. [she laughs]. You have to focus on your child’s dreams. What they want.

These people are dangerous. God knows how many families they've wrecked with their utterly wrong-headed, toxic approach to these confused children who needed therapy from sane, mature adults.

4thwavenow.com/2016/09/29/gender-affirmative-therapist-baby-who-hates-barrettes-trans-boy-questioning-sterilization-of-11-year-olds-same-as-denying-cancer-treatment/

It’s so circular! Hair barrettes are female signifiers because we give them to women. Dresses are female signifiers because some women wear them. In the days before trousers, all men were men in dresses! These are all cultural constructions. How lazy does she have to be to be a psycholgist for whom this is allegedly her specialist subject and to have not actually done any research at all on prestige goods or gender constructs/signifiers? Can no one do any thinking?
Sorry I know I’ve gone slightly off topic but I’ve absolutely had it with these shoddy low-quality otherwise-failed academics who can’t actually conduct a competent or ethical piece of statistically significant research or question their basic assumptions and biases. They seem to have seen a profitable career in bullshitting at the expense of young people, do they just write ‘gender gender gender’ 50,000 times and get given a phd?

Lovelyricepudding · 16/10/2022 11:51

Just thinking of a Viva for a gender PhD. I wonder how that works? Any critical analysis and you would be accused of transphobia and it not being a safe spaces.

Lovelyricepudding · 16/10/2022 11:53

Not sure if this has been asked but how can they be trans in the womb if sex isn't allocated until birth?