Paul Brand / ITV falsely says LGBAlliance opposes transgender rights

[ChristinaXYZ]

If anyone fancies complaining

twitter.com/BevJacksonAuth/status/1577717075665195008

LGBA would never have had to exist in the first place if it weren't for the "queer" infiltration of the LGB movement.

Like a Trojan horse, the added extra letters became determined to undermine the rights of same-sex attracted people. Their right to live in peace, free from abuse, their right to not be coerced into same-sex relationships.

The "T" element in the forced grouping LGBT are responsible for the abuse and harm of lesbians, in particular young same-sex attracted women who have no choice but to learn about their sexuality through the male dominated lense of social media, riddled with "queer" males who tell them if they are attracted to women they should be attracted to a person with a cock with a skirt on otherwise they're a bigot, terf, and should be punched or raped.

If you're going to defend the behaviour of these "queer" males you need to at least own it. Stop pretending to be the victim.
Lesbians aren't attacking trans people by turning them down. Male born trans people are however actually attacking lesbians for turning them down.
This is the antithesis of the LGB movement. It's an utter disgrace in fact.

The LGBA are desperately needed right now to protect and support LGB people from the relentless attack of gender ideology which is to it's very core anti-LGB.

Once again, we have posters coming on to accuse LGBA of hate, unable to provide a single actual example of that 'hate' and then accusing us of the same thing.
You can keep throwing mud if you like, but it's no longer sticking and everyone can see where it's coming from.

Stop using words you don't understand. LGB people are perfectly entitled to their own organisation. You and your fellow 'queers' can set up your own organisation. Leave gay and bisexual people alone.

God, this is all so regressive.

'They clearly do little for us who are LGB.'

When you say LGB, what do you actually mean?

Hey hold on though!!

Mishy is standing up for straight people too!! I mean, those who identify as queer. I think there are plenty of straight people who can qualify for that ‘spicy’ category. So, thanks Mishy! For including us in your activism. You rock!!

I am now comfortable going and marching at Pride under that category. Isn’t that what it is all about?

yeah well you aint queer dear

yeah well, you didn’t know ‘who’ is what on this thread. Strangely, you feel you have to confidence in this era to make this statement. To tell people what their sexual orientation is is frowned on, isn’t it? Did you just fail a Stonewall manifesto item?

Oh well. Better try harder to get it right.

I love the vagueness of 'overseas' too. There's something gloriously antique about it. 'Over yonder oceans I have heard it said there be peoples who have classified yon LGBA a hate group...'

😂

Actually, most of the campaigns currently listed on that page are to do with gender ideology and transgender:

• Gay Teens Aren't Sick: same-sex young people who are referred to gender clinics is homophobic.

• Gay News: encourage digitisation of 'Gay News' on the British Newspaper Archive.

• End Conversion Therapy: Sexual orientation and gender identity are two distinct categories which need to be considered separately. Mostly about defining conversion therapy in relation to gender identity, very little about gay conversion therapy.

• Justice for Alison [Bailey]: her employment tribunal about the Stonewall complaint.

• Gender Recognition Act Reform: all about trans.

• Lets Talk About Sex: leads to a Welsh site about the Welsh Government’s LGBTQ+ Action Plan. Much of it seems to be focused on the effect of gender ideology on sex-based issues.

• Sex In the Census 2021: using the term 'sex' in the census.

• Hate Crime bill (Scotland): including 'sex' as a hate crime (to cover misogynistic hate crime) and supporting Johann Lamont's amendments (which includes calling for sex to be defined).

• Schools Campaign: Genderbread Person and teaching gender ideology in schools.

So apart from digitising back copies of Gay News, everything else has an element of gender/trans.

Sorry, didn't mean for the extra spacing.

I was referencing an earlier 'go educate yourself' post about LGBA's campaigns not being anti-trans.

lgballiance.org.uk/campaigns/

Yes, there is a cross over. No one said there is not.

That would be like saying that 'trans rights only ever impact on trans people'. And as females, we know that this is most definitely not true.

Hence LGB Alliance is working on all areas of current issues directly impacting LGB people, including children and young people. If LGB young people are more heavily impacted with gender identity policy and law changes than other groups, why wouldn't LGB Alliance be working to protect them?

All perfectly legitimate items for LGBA to be working on @yetanotherusernameAgain due to the impact all of those issues have on LGB people old(er) and young(er). Are you suggesting they ignore them and let down the very people they are advocating for merely because they cross over with Gender Ideology and trans people?

Gay Teens Aren't Sick: same-sex young people who are referred to gender clinics is homophobic. Well, yes they would be worried about gay teens being transed away.
Gay News: encourage digitisation of 'Gay News' on the British Newspaper Archive.
End Conversion Therapy: Sexual orientation and gender identity are two distinct categories which need to be considered separately. Mostly about defining conversion therapy in relation to gender identity, very little about gay conversion therapy. Ditto, transing away the gay would be something concerning.
Justice for Alison [Bailey]: her employment tribunal about the Stonewall complaint. Why wouldn't they be interested when lesbians have been kicked out of their jobs?
Gender Recognition Act Reform: all about trans. And impacts on lesbians.
Lets Talk About Sex: leads to a Welsh site about the Welsh Government’s LGBTQ+ Action Plan. Much of it seems to be focused on the effect of gender ideology on sex-based issues. Yes, and this will impact lesbians and gay kids. The L and G in LGBTQ+
Sex In the Census 2021: using the term 'sex' in the census. Yes, this affects everyone.
Hate Crime bill (Scotland): including 'sex' as a hate crime (to cover misogynistic hate crime) and supporting Johann Lamont's amendments (which includes calling for sex to be defined). Yes, sex being definied is quite important for same sex people isn't it?
Schools Campaign: Genderbread Person and teaching gender ideology in schools. Everyone should be concerned with this nonsense being told to kids and yet again, it affects lesbian and gay kids

So apart from digitising back copies of Gay News, everything else has an element of gender/trans. That is because it is endemic and has woven itself into every fucking institution. That's not their fault.

This is the post I was responding to - "educate yourself about the many things they do for LGB people".

Eight out of the nine campaigns on that webpage are either mostly or solely about trans/gender ideology. Yes, there is cross-over where the pro-trans agenda conflicts with other people's rights and preferences and it's fair to raise awareness/campaign about that. But some of the links with LGB (ie sexual orientation) are tenuous. Adding 'sex' to the Hate Crime bill because misogyny affects lesbian women? Well yes, it does, but because they're women, not because they're lesbian (that would be covered by anti-gay hate crime). GRA reform and sex in the census: apart from how to define same-sex attraction if binary sex doesn't exist, how does this affect LGB people (in terms of sexual orientation) rather as being men or women (regardless of sexual orientation)?

When nearly all of their campaigns are grounded in how trans/gender ideology affects LGB people (and some of that tenuous), it's no surprise when people like Mishy pipe up with "They just go on and on about the trans. ... Where are they campaigning for LGB and leaving trans alone? Oh.... they dont."

So when Stonewall is accused of adopting trans issues because they've run out of LGB things to campaign for, is LGBA doing the same? But whereas Stonewall is pro-trans, LGBA is pushing back on trans encroachment? Because I'm not seeing a lot of LGB interest from either of them.

i think you will find that lesbian feminists have been feministing for not just lesbian women’s rights for a very long time.

I could be wrong. But reading and listening to lesbian feminists, I think that they certainly have always been working to protect not just lesbian and bisexual women, but all women.

So, I don’t find them working a general improvement for all females regardless of sexual orientation controversial.

Why would you? Do you think Julie Bindel only works for lesbians?

Eight out of the nine campaigns on that webpage are either mostly or solely about trans/gender ideology. Yes, there is cross-over where the pro-trans agenda conflicts with other people's rights and preferences and it's fair to raise awareness/campaign about that.

Good to see it acknowledged that pro-trans agenda conflicts with other people's rights.

But some of the links with LGB (ie sexual orientation) are tenuous.

Really? How so?

Adding 'sex' to the Hate Crime bill because misogyny affects lesbian women? Well yes, it does, but because they're women, not because they're lesbian (that would be covered by anti-gay hate crime).

Ever heard of fairness? If everything else is a Hate Crime why not misogyny?

GRA reform and sex in the census: apart from how to define same-sex attraction if binary sex doesn't exist, how does this affect LGB people (in terms of sexual orientation) rather as being men or women (regardless of sexual orientation)?

Apart from how to define same sex attraction if binary sex doesn't exist You've answered your own question here.

Do you think Julie Bindel only works for lesbians?

No, but does she work on wider feminist issues from within an organisation set up for "Lesbians, gay men and bisexuals living free from discrimination or disadvantage based on their sexual orientation" [my emphasis]? Or does she work as an individual and links with relevant special-interest groups when appropriate?

"But some of the links with LGB (ie sexual orientation) are tenuous.
Really? How so?"

Re-read my two comments immediately below that. Sex hate crime and misogyny is a woman's issue. Yes, some women are lesbians, but that doesn't make it a "lesbian" issue, it's a women's issue. If something effects lesbians and heterosexual woman regardless of their sexual orientation, then it's a women's issue. Lesbians are free to campaign on such issues, but why, again, would they do so from within an organisation for "Lesbians, gay men and bisexuals living free from discrimination or disadvantage based on their sexual orientation".

As for the use of the term 'sex' in the census, the main issue is if data about biological sex isn't captured, then it can't be used to measure outcomes for men and women throughout society and make provision for them. That removing 'sex' from the census contributes to the erasure of the concept of biological sex and the knock-on consequences of the definition of 'same-sex attraction' is a secondary issue. The most important reason to include 'sex' is to capture information that can be used to equalise opportunities and outcomes for men and woman. Yes, some of them will be lesbian, gay or bisexual but their sexual orientation isn't relevant in 'sex' equality.

I'm not saying that L, G, or B people shouldn't campaign on any issue they wish (whether that be trans-encroachment, disability rights, the cost of childcare, or their local donkey sanctuary). But an organisation created for "Lesbians, gay men and bisexuals living free from discrimination or disadvantage based on their sexual orientation" would more easily discredit accusations of being solely 'anti-trans' if 8 out of 9 of their campaigns didn't centre on trans-encroachment.

If, as is sometimes suggested, Stonewall have run out of LGB issues to campaign on, what have LGBA found to campaign about, other than trans-encroachment on LGB rights?

Oh no - are lesbians lesbianing wrong again? And women are womanning wrong?

So tedious.

If, as is sometimes suggested, Stonewall have run out of LGB issues to campaign on, what have LGBA found to campaign about, other than trans-encroachment on LGB rights?

So, let’s see. Have you bunged the census in as a ‘trans’ conflict issue?

Isn’t it important for data integrity and continuity for analysis to know just how many female people are lesbian or bisexual in the UK? For evaluating this growth we get told is happening that is not driven by males identifying as lesbians?

So that provision of lesbian specific female single sex spaces or gay male single sex spaces can be judged? And also those that include bisexual people as well. So , it is important to know numbers of bisexual people too. And where the numbers are changing. Surely?

I disagree that the census issue is an issue that is not LGB specific.

Now why doesn’t Stonewall want to know this? Oh yeah. That’s right. Stonewall advised on the policy around the census… and Stonewall don’t activate for single ‘sex’ spaces for anyone. Never. Not for any reason anymore.

Hate Crime bill

Again. I don’t know why some posters don’t consider this a LGB specific issue. When it can relate to language around defining L and G sexual boundaries relating to ‘sex’, amongst other things.

Now, why would Stonewall not be fighting to make sure no L & G people are inadvertently caught in hate crime legislation? Oh… hang on there. Stonewall are actively campaigning to widen hate crime and… let’s not forget what else they are activating on too. Changing the sex by deception laws… so a lesbian or female bisexual person could end up having unwanted sex with a penis and have no recourse for this in law, or with a neo-vagina that they don’t want sex with. And vice versa for male homosexual and bisexual people.

And there is a current open consultation on sex by deception. Next you will be telling us that LGB Alliance should not be involved in that either. So, are you? Are you going to tell us that?

Allison Bailey’s case

You mean the one where Allison took two organisations to court for their treatment of her for discussing lesbian issues publicly. Such as discussing the Cotton Ceiling. Such as lesbians being able to define themselves as lesbian without males.

Also, for publicly making her dissatisfaction with Stonewall and the lack of focus on issues she wanted focus on known.

Why wasn’t Stonewall supporting Allison Bailey? … well that is obvious isn’t it.

And really, it is ludicrous to then list issues where another group’s demands for rights conflicts with another group’s rights as being ‘focused on’ that second group.

No. Protecting LGB people of whatever age against law changes, safeguarding issues, and experimental medical treatments is centred on just that. Protecting LGB people. Of any age group. From any group demanding conflicting rights.

It is quite right though to frame some of their action as focusing on ‘trans encroachment’ issues. That is a wide reaching issue. Plus if it was any other group, call them the ‘y people’ for instance, who was in conflict, it would be about protecting LGB rights against that group, the ‘y people’. So this is about the conflicts not the specific group. As it should be.

Why, if there is an urgency to prevent policies being changed SHOULDN’T that be where focus is? Why shouldn’t they react quickly to prevent poorly formed and worded law being passed in the first place? Far easier than fighting to change it after it is passed.

Or are you a person who thinks a group should only be activating to change laws after they have been passed, recently or long ago, but not be involved in shaping them to protect your members while they are being formed? Because that seems to be what you are saying here.

That LGB Alliance should not be involved in fighting to protect LGB people’s interest where there is ‘trans encroachment’ because then they are a ‘hate group’? By you and other people’s definition, who can’t seem to handle an alternative group representing some LGB people if those people choose.

Are you really saying they should not support LGB people who are harmed or may be harmed by these new laws and policies because they should be focused on something else that people wanting to call them a hate group say they should be focused on?

What kind of support group is that?

But it is also ridiculous to pose this as ‘why isn’t Stonewall addressing the LGB only issues’ then too?

Surely anyone asking that question has not been following Stonewall’s actions closely for even the past year.

Not impartial. He's a journalist and has vested interests.

Many of the LGBA members are former Stonewall members. Seems like a lot of posters here want to trans the gay away.

I've heard too many people say that because it is LGBT, the LGB are going to take the hit for the excessives of the trans movement.

Stonewall have recently starting pushing asexual rights as they're seeing the trans money dry up (as it's a saturated market).

For those posters wondering why LGBA are so focused on the trans issue, it is because this is an issue which affects lesbians and gay men in the most basic ways
the head of stonewall referred to lesbians who won’t date transwomen as ‘sexual racists’. How is that not homophobia? Or conversion therapy?
lesbians and gay men are told ‘genital preferences’ I E same sex attraction is transphobic. How is that not homophobia and conversion therapy? This push by stonewall and others on the trans agenda does affect LGB people and therefore I would expect any organisation for those people to be focussed on this issue
when LGB people were fighting for same sex marriage, I wonder if anyone complained stonewall were too focussed on that issue and should work on something else

please help me understand which particular "right" or "rights" are you referring to

Oooh @howdoesatoastermaketoast we may get an answer to this age old question. Exciting.

I’m confused. If asexuality is basically not feeling sexual desire, what rights do they need fighting for?