Teacher sacked after refusing to use preferred pronouns without first checking with parents

[rogdmum]

“I wanted at least to make sure that my student had parental support and was making an informed decision,’ he said. ‘As a parent myself, I would have been furious if my child had taken this step and I hadn’t been told anything.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11246431/Swindon-teacher-sacked-refusing-use-pupils-preferred-pronouns-without-parental-permission.html

I sometimes wonder whether my daughter’s former teachers had any idea her school was supporting her transition (initially) without our knowledge and against clinical advice. I suspect even if they had been aware and had been uncomfortable about doing so, there would have been no way for them to push back against it with management.

This says it clearly. Who is actually supporting these vulnerable children? Saying he instead of she is not support. No wonder mh is exploding.

Absolutely horrifying.

IME this isn’t as big of an issue as people/ the media think though.

Noteverybodylives I think this is naive. I’ve spoken to hundreds of parents over the past three years and the role schools are playing in gender ideology, particularly in terms of keeping parents in the dark wrt social transition is a very big issue for each and every one of them.

In what other cases would it be considered right to keep the parents out of any decisions to do with their child?

In none. That's why the guidance is changing.

Who has enacted that the parents have no rights in these circumstances?

TLDR: Originally it was government guidance and also advice to local authorities and school managements, based on advice and training from lobby groups who assume that parents are transphobic and if parents were told they would just give their children conversion therapy that would harm their child's emerging trans identity and fragile mental health.

The government have now noticed - well, had it forcefully brought to their attention! - that lobby groups are just lobby groups, and (as you say) that this is at odds with all other advice on safeguarding children. So now the govt are changing their advice.

Luckily for Labour a Conservative government is making these changes. When Labour get into power they will be able to shake their heads and blame the Conservatives and right-wing Christians, while quietly kicking the possibility of reversing these changes into the long grass. Children will be safer and everyone will be happy.

I look forward to the court case.

I work with SEND kids now so things like this are much less common as they’re just themselves

A couple of years ago I might have thought the same thing about my DC. (Where is the "grim smile" emoticon when you need it.) So what does "just themselves" mean to you? Too immature or intellectually challenged to reflect on their own gender identity?

and the couple who think they’re the opposite gender are genuine as they don’t just copy the others.

Where to start unpacking this? OK, what does "genuine" mean to you? You know about the connection betweem autism and teen gender dysphoria? What makes you think all the children you teach are immune to social contagion, or that the teen in the classroom isn't equally "genuine", or is copying others, or doesn't have SN diagnosed or otherwise? Just because they're entering a maths olympiad from a mainstream class?

If at any point he has deviated from school policy, which he will have done there is no chance of winning the case.

Still curious, if anyone can comment …. if a parent asked directly how teachers were addressing their dc, would the school
a) tell them
b) lie
c) refuse to answer the question?

waterwitch Our experience was that the school just flat out lied to us. After supporting our daughter’s social transition to a boy without our knowledge, they said they would back down to they/them pronouns and then agreed to row back to she/her after we pressed upon them the clinical advice. The rowing back never occurred and what we found was that they were adamant they/them was being used. However, we know he/him was being used in school due to the number of teachers slipping up in front of us and communication to social services obtained via SAR where only male pronouns were used.

I disagree that if he went against school policy he will lose. There are many organisations in all sorts of areas that have bad policies which lead to legal challenges.

If he didn't like the policy he should have challenged the policy, not gone off on his own.

At my school we only change pronouns and names with consultation and permission from parents. In sixth form it’s a bit more flexible so I would tend to use preferred names but avoid pronouns completely. It does sound a bit weird to repeat the name but I prefer that to using a male pronoun for the clearly female person in front of me.

The majority of trans policies for schools are written by self invested adults who have no education expertise so feel free to trash safeguarding, pastoral care, the law and all other education expertise that schools should have. Most of these policies advise that parents may not be supportive, (transphobic even) misrepresent Fraser / Gillick competency and cheerfully suggest that schools can "help" children by breaching the Children Act and keep secrets from parents Legally only the courts can remove parental rights but until a parent drags a school through the courts for doing precisely this, schools carry on socially transitioning children in grim ignorance.

Forgot to add waterwitch, I think it will depend how captured a school is - and who the parent asks. But there's no doubt that those in the grips of Stonewall or other groups will follow their illegal advice (so b or c) rather than give parents the information they need to protect their children. That's how bad the situation has become in some schools.

The reasoning given by a local school for not informing parents (which came from an outside organisation advising on the legal position) was that a child over 12/13 years old needs to give explicit consent in order for that information to be shared under GDPR and informing without that consent would be a data breach.

I think that's a load of bollocks but I'm just an ordinary person without any legal training so my interpretation of the law means nothing.

in some ways I am actually quite pleased about this as it will be tested in court and a definitive ruling will be made that then must be applied to all schools. This could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I am currently challenging a policy at my school which states, amongst other things, we should lie to parents about names and pronouns at parents evening. We should also refuse to disclose any details if a parent asks if changing facilities are in fact mixed sex. I am totally against this and have made my views known but the chances of this making a difference are slim to none. What do I do then? I don't want to lose my job but I don't want to harm children, which this policy does.

Not all policies have legal standing. Many school policies go against government guidelines and the very legal Equality 2010 law.

If you can't get your head around that think of all the buying contracts that say you have no rights but the Sale of Goods Act says you do. Guess which one supercedes the other.

I was also told it would be a gdpr breach to tell parents. Does the school use Equaliteach by any chance?

In my case it was a smaller organisation who seemed to use the materials produced by The Proud Trust and by Allsorts.

The teacher's statement that he wanted to be sure the pupil was making an informed decision smacks of interference in parenting. Does each teacher get to interrogate the parents and child to decide whether that individual teacher agrees that exactly the right information has been given? And can one teacher override the decision when the parents are satisfied that their child did make a fully informed decision?

It seems to me that when you are dealing with 17 year olds, who are of course entitled to decide whether to have sex and have children, you are entering very murky waters if you decide to treat their decisions as a total nullity unless and until their parents have satisfied you about the basis of that decision and that they agree with it.

😲 it’s pretty unreasonable to expect teachers (and any other professionals) to lie to parents. But, I do realise we’re not in a good place 😟

I was also told it would be a gdpr breach to tell parents.

Parents are the legal guardians of their children. If that was the case there are all sorts of things which happen to their children at school that parents wouldn't be allowed to know about. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

I just wanted to stop by to say that I don’t think schools should be agreeing to new pronouns even with parental consent.

I think the Cass Review will recommend that this psychological intervention should only be carried by schools if advised by a professional working with that child re their gender distress/dysphoria.

I'm no an expert in how GDPR interacts with safeguarding, except to say that safeguarding children (in my experience) takes precedence over all other issues. Trigger warning
I worked with a school where a child confided concerns to a member of staff who failed to share it and the child subsequently killed themselves that evening. The parents were of the view that had the school shared the information with them they would have been in a position to intervene and protect their child. It was before the implementation of Serious Case Reviews so this was not tested against legislation as it would be now. However due to my involvement with SCRs, I can attest that professionals failing to share critical information with those charged with protecting a child are a major focus for criticism.
It defies belief that schools decide to withhold information from parents because trans activists tell them to.

I think some schools are very good at hiding behind GDPR when it suits them. Schools share all sorts of information about pupils with their parents. Why does this get special exemption under GDPR? The ICO is clear that GDPR is not a barrier where there are safeguarding concerns, anyway.