Teacher sacked after refusing to use preferred pronouns without first checking with parents

[rogdmum]

“I wanted at least to make sure that my student had parental support and was making an informed decision,’ he said. ‘As a parent myself, I would have been furious if my child had taken this step and I hadn’t been told anything.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11246431/Swindon-teacher-sacked-refusing-use-pupils-preferred-pronouns-without-parental-permission.html

I sometimes wonder whether my daughter’s former teachers had any idea her school was supporting her transition (initially) without our knowledge and against clinical advice. I suspect even if they had been aware and had been uncomfortable about doing so, there would have been no way for them to push back against it with management.

If I were teaching secondary at the moment this is how I'd handle it too. It's not sustainable otherwise. I sympathise with the teacher but do think we need to move away from grouping pupils boy/girl and a list of girls on the board may have been goady- what was the reason for it? Definitely not a firing issue but I have worked with the odd dickhead teacher on a power trip...

The reason for the girl's name was it was for entry to a females' maths Olympiad.

It sounds as though, and I would expect, that entry to the girls' olympiad was entirely voluntary, too. If this student didn't consider themself to be a girl, there was no need to be entering.

Ah- I missed that, thanks! As in a list of those eligible to apply? To be honest I'd still take it from them to volunteer...
Honestly as a teacher I wouldn't be going along with weekly pronoun changes but I would be 'playing defensively' by avoiding the sticky moments. And as a side effect I think less emphasis on gender could be a good thing in many classrooms (looking desperately for silver lining!)

Cross post egmo, I agree.

All other maths competitions are open to both sexes, of course. Girls' olympiads were invented to encourage more girls into this heavily male -dominated field. This student undoubtedly had suffered from the female socialisation that has led to the need for girls' olympiads and I doubt many would object to the entry - in EGMO at least the rule is "competitors must be female" so transman, fine. But you'd think everyone would realise there were likely to be social clunks and not blame the teacher for them!

The Olympiads are voluntary. I would think also worth using your official name for, as if you do well you will receive an award which can be used for uni personal statement etc. So it would be sensible if name on certificate matched that on uni application.

All true of course, and if the teacher thinks to use that as his defence I think they'd be hard pressed to fire him!

You can't have it both ways though. You can't want to be recognised and classified as a female in order to enter a maths competition but then object to being recognised and classified as a female by the use of pronouns. Its like Eddie Izzard being in "boy mode" to get lucrative jobs but "girl mode" to win women's awards.

Also true, but the kind of thing a teacher could take ten seconds to advise the pupil at the end of a lesson, instead of lists on the board. I don't think teacher should be fired but I think pragmatically we are going to have to adjust to this.

It's not quite like that, see emro on female socialisation.
Female maths olympiads for all females imo, just like all female Olympic events (transmen welcome if no inflated testosterone!)

I think many parents and teachers are waiting for this guidance to be released.

I know I will be sending it to my teens school where they send reports, certificates and correspondence to the parents with the students new names when parents have had no idea.

Sounds like a stupid question but why would a student who wants to be known by a male name and pronouns want to enter a competition for females? Sounds like someone who is very confused. Secondly my DS went to a school with over 1300 pupils. Typical boy didn’t tell me much about it but he did once mention a transboy in his class (which came up as they were studying a play where a character transitioned). My point is that pupils must talk to parents and parents to other parents about all sorts of things. How do these things stay secret when so many people are involved? Finally what happens if there is an incident at the school eg a transboy is injured whilst playing on a boys sports team, something happens in the toilets, bullying etc how is this explained away to parents?

This. Action have consequences, that’s something we all have to learn

this pupil believes themself to be a boy. Ok they’re a bit so no they can’t enter competitions for girls

or is it (perish the thought) they know damn well they’re not a boy but they don’t want to be a teenage girl with all the crap that comes with it

Hmm, if its the second, even more important to hold on to the reality of sex.
I don't think we are going to 'punish' female teenagers out of this.

I share the teacher's views but I do think he handled this very wrongly.

The safeguarding lead gave direct advice. the education department's advice may/will change in the near future but it hasn't changed yet. This was not an emergency, changing names and pronouns (etc) without parental agreement wasn't placing the pupil in immediate danger. An argument could have gone on behind the scenes but playing it out in the classroom in front of the other kids was not in the pupil's best interest.

However contradictory it may seem to want to change your gender and yet also enter a competition meant for your own sex, that is (as far as I know) allowed under the Equality Act 2010 for the Gender Reassignment protected characteristic. It would be discrimination to not let a girl enter a competition for girls just because she had a boys' name (or indeed a boys' gender identity).

A typical lunatic situation typical of our age. So the kid wants to be referred to as a boy yet wants to enter a female maths competition? Seems a bit incongruous to me. I would imagine the teacher has a strong case. Just another case of an insane management supporting insane gender theories against any form of common sense or human decency,

It's quite sad isn't it. A girl who is rea

I wonder if even now the parents know about this? I wonder if they know their daughter is the 17 year old referred yo here.

All this nonsense is putting teachers in an impossible position:

• if they don't use pronouns they might be accused of being unsupportive/discriminatory
• but if they use pronouns the pupil's family might accuse them of pushing their child into gender confusion without their permission.

The teacher did the right thing in stating clarification was needed from parents. After all if a kid is under 18 their parents are responsible for them and a conversation should be had. This is just sensible.

Frankly I am surprised that anyone would still want to a teacher these days...

There's a difference between avoiding using preferred names/pronouns, and actively insisting on using names/pronouns that cause a child distress. I don't think you should force teachers to use "preferred pronouns" but equally, teachers shouldn't use individual children to push their own beliefs. A "preferred name" is quite different to a pronoun in my opinion, but that might be because I teach in an international school, and many of the students pick totally wild "English" names (like Tomy, Lucky, Holy, Apple....)

FWIW the maths challenges and olympiads are in a bit of a strange place just now. They give four options for "gender" (male, female, neither, prefer not to say) but then they also specifically have an "olympiad for girls"....

@Redqueenheart honestly, out of all the awful things that make me hate teaching just now, this isn't even top five!

Yes - we’ve had it drummed into us that these kids are suicidal and the most vulnerable and yet there’s no rush to inform the parents?

That’s worrying.

You are damned if you do and dammed if you don’t.

I never see how any of this is the responsibility of anyone other than those involved. A teachers job is to teach not validate needy controlling students. Their identity only matters to them. Not the teachers fault none if it works unless unwilling and or unconsenting strangers all play along. Perhaps that should tell them something.

Its not a good look firing a teacher who actually cares about safeguarding and recognises boundaries in regards to keeping parents out of the loop.

In what other cases would it be considered right to keep the parents out of any decisions to do with their child? Who has enacted that the parents have no rights in these circumstances? It seems very wrong to me.