Teachers face ‘significant challenges’ to avoid outing trans pupils to parents

[Igneococcus]

Article in the Times Scotland section. I know it's not a parody but it reads in part like one:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1c01ac90-3a90-11ed-84dd-c16384999350?shareToken=60057f659e554f87d8b7fb78db7b88a0

The whole article seems to have been lifted from that one video. Interesting that the majority of pupils in the video are of the female sex. Echo the comments of pp but that school is in for quite a day once they realise this and other media start asking for comments etc. I feel sorry for the children in the middle of this.

Tatsuya Ishida is absolutely brilliant. Nails it.

I agree with donquixote, the article is all about allowing those involved to look ridiculous with no involvement/judgement from the writer, and it works so well.

I'm not sure @Rapidtango and @donquixotedelamancha not based on previous articles from Mark McLaughlin. I think he bought into the entire dogma. He just commented "I'm not a columnist" when asked how he wrote this article without questioning anything in the comments.

He just commented "I'm not a columnist" when asked how he wrote this article without questioning anything in the comments.

Yeah but I think that's OK. I massively prefer news sites which just report and don't editorialise (in the news reports) at all. Commentary and analysis needs to be clearly delineated.

I think that article makes it completely clear what's going on. Keep in mind that he's chosen the quotes to use; I'm sure there were loads of empty positive ones but the ones he chose tell a story of no boundaries or common sense. If he really was actively trying to paint a positive picture then he's an imbicile.

Isn't this the elephant in the room? I know several young people who identify as non binary. This seems to mean that they don't fit neatly in to one gender stereotype and how far they fit each changes frequently, plus they don't have some innate magical 'manly' or 'womanly' feeling. They don't feel they fit any gender stereotype, want to be accepted for who they are and don't want people to make assumptions about who they are based on their biological sex. Isn't this basically the same thing Gender Critical people are saying? Except that the NB view seems to be that they are unusual, need to 'come out' and need to change their name etc whereas the CG view says no-one should feel constrained by stereotypes, no-one needs to change their name etc and everyone has a unique personality.

I agree that this is the effect that the article has and I welcome that @donquixotedelamancha I just don't think it's by design. Mark used to respond quite a bit to comments under his articles, he might do more under this one, and it used to be very steeped in trans ideology. He might have changed his mind since then.

I can't see the comments, what's the consensus?

Utter lunacy

Mark used to respond quite a bit to comments under his articles, he might do more under this one, and it used to be very steeped in trans ideology.

I don't know his work, so I'll take your word for it. So often when Genderists think they are promoting their agenda the sunlight has the opposite effect.

This is the prevailing popular culture among these peopke. Of course it is wrong and proved wrong psychologically as we are all made up of various types of personalities whether male or female. Some males have more female characteristics and some females have more male characteristics but it doesn’t mean to say they’re the wrong sex. Just means to say they are not so characteristic of their sex. What we are now doing is stereotyping the sexes and saying that if someone doesn’t fit into the sex stereotype they’re in the wrong body which is absolutely ludicrous.

Most recommended comment at the momen for those who can't see the comments.
We are obviously doing something right here at Queen Anne because we have an absolutely huge number of pupils attending the pride club.”
I think the opposite is the case. Surely alarm bells should be ringing when what looks like a clear case of social contagion is at work.
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Do the parents know what is going on? They will now that it's in a national newspaper, but the whole article was about hiding what was happening in that school from the parents.

Perhaps the writer has actually done something quite clever here? (Clutching at straws)

I can’t see the comments but would love to.

“We are obviously doing something right here at Queen Anne because we have an absolutely huge number of pupils attending the pride club.”
That's probably not the conclusion most people will be drawing....

ForWomenScot have produced a transcript of the video:

forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Transcript-of-trans-video-Queen-Anne-High-School-Dunfermline-September-2022.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0AUoM46zjUotQdhgg2PgNIX9gz4jJvHg4pFXAkyqr3vYkVk3d2Ujffs2c

I remember looking at the CS rates for Telford, and seeing they were significantly lower than anywhere else and how they were being hailed as brilliant and thinking "Uh oh, significant outliers are not good. There's something wrong here"

I get the same vibe here. If you have a significant outlier, it always merits close examination for other things at play and whether something else is being concealed.

In terms of social and human behaviour, you don't get significant outliers due to sudden spontaneous higher performance. You have a culture which is distorting something, which is out of step with everywhere else for some reason. If something is out of step you ask two questions : is this showing what is claimed and are their unintended consequences?

A spotlight absolutely needs shining on this.

Are parents happy / concerned that teachers are taking active steps to conceal things from them? Should things be concealed from parents? How do you have proper safeguarding and accountability if there is a culture of concealment from parents which is being encouraged by the school with pupils?

You should NEVER automatically assume that a significant outlier is doing something right. If you do, you have a cultural problem with a lack of critical consideration.

It doesn't matter what it's for, or what the situation is. If it's a situation which deals with vulnerable people, there's even more of a reason to be asking questions about a significant outlier.

If we are seeing a widespread cultural change in society, we should see change across the board at a fairly similar rate. Significant outliers are potentially your dead canaries.

If I'd just been presented with that article and with no context I'd definitely have said it came from The Onion or similar.

Dear oh dear! I'm sure they don't mean any harm.

That is just awful to read so sad. Those who gave grieved for their dead children must find this very insulting (I do).

Be fair - you don't choose to grieve or not. It's not the same grief as for a death but it is still grief. I grieved when I learned that my DC had a longterm condition that meant I would never have the "normal" child I thought I had. And now my adult DC has come out as trans and I am grieving for the physically healthy future my DC has given up and I may soon have to grieve for the reproductive choices that my DC will lose as a result of transition. Which my DC does not grieve, because DC is still too young to realise that DC may ever want those choices in future. I was starting to realise by that age but DH didn't til years later.

Perhaps having future plans for your child, based on their sex, is a bad idea.
Perhaos but it's normal to have future hopes and dreams for your child based on their continuing good health.

This won't change the way in which Lynx has children, cos biology is a bastard.

And it could change whether Lynx will have the option of children at all. Because natural biology is a bastard and physical transition is an even bigger bastard.

Except that the NB view seems to be that they are unusual, need to 'come out' and need to change their name etc

Does the "etc" mean changing their physical body? Removing breasts from nonbinary girls is a thing, though maybe not in Scotland. Yet.

These parents and teachers had better pray that it all stops with names and pronouns.

The Scottish education system was, at one time, the envy of many countries.

What the actual fuck is this?

I do hope the Cass review is picked up inScotland, it's about English schools but the issues are the same.

Unbelievable that supposedly mature adults are getting into the transgender nonsense. There might be one or two genuine cases but social contagion, coupled with some adults who go along and encourage it, is leading to a sheer tsunami of children being manipulated.

Well at least when posters come on and say it doesn’t happen we’ll be able to point them straight to this.

Just... wow. From the FWS transcript linked below (my bold):

My name is Rachel Watson and I am the mother of a 14 year old, non-binary kid called Roo. So when Roo was about 10 years old, they started wearing their little brothers clothes, they're quite close in age and size, so it was easy. And we just sort of let it be for a while. And then I thought it had gone on for kind of a few months, and I thought, there's a whole range of reasons why this might be the case, starting from boys clothes are more comfier, because they are, to I want to be a boy, and like a spectrum in between of reasons why they might be doing that.

So we had a chat. And I sent Roo away with some kind of resources to look for. And it happened during pride month, which was quite handy. So kind of TV, YouTube had loads of things about pride month. And they came back to me and said, I think I'm going to embarrass my kid by saying this, I think I'm gender fluent. And I said, I think you mean fluid, darling. And if that's how you feel that's great. I wasn't sure that that's what it was. I suspected that they were more of a non-binary kind of a neither gender, kind more strongly, rather than somebody that switches between the two. So I said, go and research what non-binary means.

And then still, even with, I think I did a good job, I think I was supportive, I think that I was quite well educated before the conversation. And even with offering that kind of love and support. Roo still kind of wrote me a coming out letter and was really nervous about telling me that they were non-binary, even though it was me that had suggested that they might be.