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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The F-word have given up.

48 replies

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 12:12

I hadn't actually had cause to look at the site for several years now, but prompted by a mention I just went to have a look ...

thefword.org.uk/2022/08/goodbye-for-now/

'The concerns of feminism go beyond sexism alone, though. As they should. Today in the UK politicians are tripping over themselves to make sure we know that they are transphobic, foodbank use is higher than ever and the police continue to use their powers to disproportionately target people of colour. Until we have overcome racism, disablism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, ageism and all other forms of prejudice, feminism will still be needed.'

It's almost funny.

OP posts:
EsmesRedPetticoat · 16/09/2022 12:20

Fix everything women. It’s probably your fault in the first place anyway.
I agree, it’s maddening!

Ofcourseshecan · 16/09/2022 12:32

Fix everything women. It’s probably your fault in the first place anyway.

Third-wave feminism in a nutshell. Star

NecessaryScene · 16/09/2022 12:36

Related content - this retweeted by Maya

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1570467942659403777

Feminism is for everyone ??? 🙄🙄🙄

I noticed the new WE BELIEVE sign no longer believes women’s rights are human rights… the new narrative is feminism is for everyone… although feminism by its very definition and intention is for females. But you are right, this isn’t about erasing women’s rights at all! Cool!

The F-word have given up.
The F-word have given up.
NecessaryScene · 16/09/2022 12:37

And one of my favorite Magdalen Berns videos - 1 Reason Everyday Feminism Is Bad For Women, about another site which is (was?) apparently real, not a parody.

Fluffyfluffflufffluff · 16/09/2022 12:37

The first thing they mention is transphobia 🙃

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 12:46

That 'We believe' sign is putting me in mind of something ...

The F-word have given up.
OP posts:
Plasmodesmata · 16/09/2022 12:58

From link, it says "To keep your feminist fires burning while we are having a pause, check out these awesome groups and sites:"
gal-dem
Level Up
Red Pepper
openDemocracy
PinkNews
Girls on Tops
Polyester

Pink News, that well known feminist website?

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 12:59

Yes, if that's the creme de la creme of current feminist thinking we're all doomed.

PinkNews, a T shirt company, and some random internet news site?

OP posts:
Lottapianos · 16/09/2022 13:04

Jesus. Boo-hooing about 'transphobia' on a feminist website. I'm embarrassed for them 😸

NighghtmareNeighbour · 16/09/2022 13:16

NecessaryScene · 16/09/2022 12:37

And one of my favorite Magdalen Berns videos - 1 Reason Everyday Feminism Is Bad For Women, about another site which is (was?) apparently real, not a parody.

Thanks for sharing this.

Flatmountains · 16/09/2022 13:53

I do love Magdalen Burns' videos. I'm sorry she died, but it lovely that she is still here on the Internet.

mirax · 16/09/2022 13:55

I am glad that they have given up and there is one less useless handmaiden organisation.

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 14:11

I had a look at their social media and noticed there was barely any traction in the months leading up to them ceasing to publish.

Has everyone started to lose interest in the craven flim-flam of genderist propaganda, I wonder?

OP posts:
Shortpoet · 16/09/2022 14:33

NecessaryScene · 16/09/2022 12:36

Related content - this retweeted by Maya

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1570467942659403777

Feminism is for everyone ??? 🙄🙄🙄

I noticed the new WE BELIEVE sign no longer believes women’s rights are human rights… the new narrative is feminism is for everyone… although feminism by its very definition and intention is for females. But you are right, this isn’t about erasing women’s rights at all! Cool!

Do they no longer believe that “diversity makes us stronger” now command that we “be kind to all”

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 14:48

I am glad that they have given up and there is one less useless handmaiden organisation.

They should have called it "So long and thanks for all the clownfish". Fuckity bye, anyway.

I remember at one point MN being asked to model their talk guidelines on this issue on the F Word ones. Good luck with that:

https://thefword.org.uk/our-position/thef-worddbloggerspositionno/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 14:49

Their policy:

"We reject as transphobic:
◦ Any assertion that trans women are not “real” women, or that trans men are not “real” men, and any assertions that we consider, to the best of our judgement, to stem from this belief.
◦ Any assertion that trans women are men, or that trans men are women, and any assertions that we consider, to the best of our judgement, to stem from this belief.
◦ Any assertion that trans women should be excluded from women-only spaces, or from accessing services that are designed for women.
◦ Any assertion that trans people are mentally ill. This is also disablist.
◦ Any assertion that trans people have no place in feminism.
Transphobic comments, or those which engage in trans-misogyny, as defined above, will not be published. However, the content of these comments may be shared between bloggers or contributors and then addressed in articles (without naming the commenter), or directly in an e-mail to the commenter, in an effort to tackle transphobic attitudes and behaviour.
In order to ensure that trans people feel as welcome to participate in The F-Word as cis people, we respectfully ask that cis readers and contributors refrain from:
◦ Using comment threads related to trans issues to ask basic questions about trans individuals’ experiences and identities, unless you are specifically invited to do so. Cis bloggers are not expected to explain what it means to be cis, or to educate readers about the “cis experience” every time they post; trans bloggers are entitled to the same kind of respect. We have included some links below in order that you can research these issues yourself.
◦ Using comment threads related to transgender issues to air your views on the term cis, unless specifically invited to do so, or if the article itself discusses the term. We use the term simply to designate those who are not trans, in a manner which does not Other trans people.
◦ Using comment threads related to trans issues to air your theories on gender and trans identity, unless specifically invited to do so. For example, it would be inappropriate to bring up the nature/nurture debate as it relates to gender under a post highlighting violence against trans women."

JellySaurus · 16/09/2022 15:05

I see. The 'F' does not, as I originally thought, stand for Feminism. It stands for Fuck Off.

KittyKlaws · 16/09/2022 15:21

Plasmodesmata · 16/09/2022 12:58

From link, it says "To keep your feminist fires burning while we are having a pause, check out these awesome groups and sites:"
gal-dem
Level Up
Red Pepper
openDemocracy
PinkNews
Girls on Tops
Polyester

Pink News, that well known feminist website?

Pink News? Ha, really.

Good riddance, there is no need for yet another site which spreads the idea that feminism is some sort of emergency aid group for all comers rather than a movement which centers females. I won't be sad to see it go, the goodbye message just reinforces why it should shut down.

TERFwithAcat · 16/09/2022 16:05

TBF, The F-word was always lackluster, even before feminism became haunted by the trans issue.

nepeta · 16/09/2022 16:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 14:49

Their policy:

"We reject as transphobic:
◦ Any assertion that trans women are not “real” women, or that trans men are not “real” men, and any assertions that we consider, to the best of our judgement, to stem from this belief.
◦ Any assertion that trans women are men, or that trans men are women, and any assertions that we consider, to the best of our judgement, to stem from this belief.
◦ Any assertion that trans women should be excluded from women-only spaces, or from accessing services that are designed for women.
◦ Any assertion that trans people are mentally ill. This is also disablist.
◦ Any assertion that trans people have no place in feminism.
Transphobic comments, or those which engage in trans-misogyny, as defined above, will not be published. However, the content of these comments may be shared between bloggers or contributors and then addressed in articles (without naming the commenter), or directly in an e-mail to the commenter, in an effort to tackle transphobic attitudes and behaviour.
In order to ensure that trans people feel as welcome to participate in The F-Word as cis people, we respectfully ask that cis readers and contributors refrain from:
◦ Using comment threads related to trans issues to ask basic questions about trans individuals’ experiences and identities, unless you are specifically invited to do so. Cis bloggers are not expected to explain what it means to be cis, or to educate readers about the “cis experience” every time they post; trans bloggers are entitled to the same kind of respect. We have included some links below in order that you can research these issues yourself.
◦ Using comment threads related to transgender issues to air your views on the term cis, unless specifically invited to do so, or if the article itself discusses the term. We use the term simply to designate those who are not trans, in a manner which does not Other trans people.
◦ Using comment threads related to trans issues to air your theories on gender and trans identity, unless specifically invited to do so. For example, it would be inappropriate to bring up the nature/nurture debate as it relates to gender under a post highlighting violence against trans women."

So they define 'woman' as someone who holds an abstract 'feminine' gender identity which might just happen to align with that person's sex (which makes her cisgender) or might not (which makes them/him/etc trans or non-binary).

Biological sex is then decoupled from being a woman, and, in fact, there is then no word for biologically female adult human beings. As sexism and misogyny aim at that particular group and its juvenile equivalent, there is then no reason for the F-word to exist, given that it is now fighting for the rights of everyone and no-one, but is actually a trans rights organisation.

But as we are told 'cis' means one is comfortable with the stereotypes associated with one's gender, feminism, within the gender identity ideology, is entirely unnecessary, to begin with.. So a pause is appropriate for F-word.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 16/09/2022 16:08

Bye.Shut the door on your way out.

nepeta · 16/09/2022 16:11

No other social justice movement is expected to cover all possible causes, by the way. Only feminism is, and this has been the case for quite a while. It's interesting, and ultimately has to do with the way women are not allowed to have boundaries or the right to say no.

Intersectionality is an important component for feminist analysis as women's oppression also depends on their position with respect to the other axes of oppression. But once we drop sex from those axes of oppression altogether, we have dropped the reason for feminism. And I see intersectionality now almost always used in a way it was never intended to be used: To expand the bailiwick of feminism to every cause in the whole world and to expect feminism to fix all of those. Women are the universal mothers and cleaning ladies of the world.

KCandtheSunlightBand · 16/09/2022 16:27

Thank F-Word they’ve gone.

ImNotAnExpert · 16/09/2022 16:41

I'm interested to see what happens to liberal feminism once it becomes (has become?) wholly untethered from the basis of biological sex.

I suspect it will fizzle out in a bonfire of its own illogic fairly quickly, but it seems to be running on fumes at the moment.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/09/2022 16:51

nepeta · 16/09/2022 16:11

No other social justice movement is expected to cover all possible causes, by the way. Only feminism is, and this has been the case for quite a while. It's interesting, and ultimately has to do with the way women are not allowed to have boundaries or the right to say no.

Intersectionality is an important component for feminist analysis as women's oppression also depends on their position with respect to the other axes of oppression. But once we drop sex from those axes of oppression altogether, we have dropped the reason for feminism. And I see intersectionality now almost always used in a way it was never intended to be used: To expand the bailiwick of feminism to every cause in the whole world and to expect feminism to fix all of those. Women are the universal mothers and cleaning ladies of the world.

Precisely this.